Michael Bennett on Leadership, Rent to Own Growth, and the Future of the RTO Industry

What does it take to build a decades long leadership career in the rent to own industry while navigating economic downturns, company transitions, and industry evolution?

In this special Legends episode of The RTO Show, Pete Shau sits down with Michael Bennett, CEO of Buddy’s Home Furnishings and former three time APRO president, to explore the people first leadership philosophy that shaped his career and helped influence the future of rent to own. 

Michael shares stories from Rent A Center, RentWay, Aaron’s, and Buddy’s Home Furnishings while discussing servant leadership, rent to own operations, collections strategies, franchise growth, virtual rent to own, customer service, and the long term future of the RTO industry. Listeners will learn how leadership, adaptability, and relationship building continue to shape one of the most resilient sectors in retail finance and consumer access. 

What You’ll Learn

• How Michael Bennett built a leadership career across multiple major rent to own companies including Rent A Center, RentWay, Aaron’s, and Buddy’s Home Furnishings
• Why servant leadership and people first culture remain critical for long term success in rent to own operations
• How collections, customer relationships, and accountability helped shape Michael’s management philosophy
• What the future of virtual rent to own, e commerce, and digital customer acquisition could mean for the RTO industry
• Why setbacks, economic downturns, and career pivots often become the foundation for stronger leadership

Episode Highlights:

• 02:18 – Michael Bennett reflects on serving three terms as APRO president and helping guide the rent to own industry through major transitions
• 06:38 – How hustling as a kid and building early businesses shaped Michael’s entrepreneurial mindset
• 11:15 – Why Michael joined Rent A Center in 1993 and started his career working on a delivery truck
• 15:20 – The leadership and operational systems Michael learned during the rapid growth years at Rent A Center
• 21:05 – What happened during Michael’s transition to RentWay and the lessons learned from rebuilding struggling regions
• 28:30 – How Aaron’s franchise operations grew average store revenue from $40,000 to more than $111,000 per store
• 34:05 – A leadership lesson about empowering frontline employees and why “titles don’t matter, people do”
• 51:00 – Michael’s prediction for the future of rent to own, virtual RTO, customer service, and industry consolidation
• 56:14 – The leadership books and frameworks Michael recommends for developing future RTO leaders

Meet the Guest:

Michael Bennett is the CEO of Buddy’s Home Furnishings and a former three time president of APRO, the Association of Progressive Rental Organizations. With more than 30 years of experience in the rent to own industry, Michael has held leadership roles at Rent A Center, RentWay, Aaron’s, and Buddy’s while helping shape operational strategy, franchise growth, and industry advocacy. 

Tools, Frameworks, or Strategies Mentioned:

• Servant leadership principles
• Welcome, Wanted, Important customer culture
• Guerrilla marketing strategies for rent to own
• Virtual rent to own and e commerce growth models
• Customer collections and relationship management systems
• Franchise operations scaling strategies
• The “Law of the Lid” leadership framework
• APRO industry advocacy and consumer access initiatives
• Leadership development through Failure Forward and The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership

Closing Insight:

“Titles don’t matter. People matter.”

Michael Bennett’s story is a reminder that the future of rent to own will always depend on leadership, adaptability, customer relationships, and investing in people at every level of the business.

Transcript

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Legends Series And RTO Book Promo

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, I'm Pete Cow. You may know me from the Arch Go Show podcast, but today I'm doing something a little bit different. April and Wild Brands have launched a special project to bring the story of our industry to life like never before. And the reason for the future. And now I get to do those conversations. With the legends. The book is quite fast, but RTO addressed that is defined. And the features that we're building together. Here's where you cut it. Quick and with quick copies of Winto Book 2. Just head over to RTORevolution.com and sign up for a chance to receive a copy of O2026. Don't miss the chance to be among the first to hold this piece of RTO history. That's rtoorevolution.com. Check it out and become a part of RTO History. Hello, welcome to the RTO Show Podcast. I'm your host, Pete Chao, and today we've got a legend here. Now, most of the time I usually say, you might not know because these guys have done it a long time ago. Now they sit back, they have the ability to run it from afar or kind of do things a little bit differently. Not Mr. Michael Bennett, not Michael Bennett. He is in the trenches all day long. I think I see your face everywhere, Mike. I think, you know, whether it be the April meetings or whether it be the board meetings or whether it be you know just something that's going on Buddy's home furnishings. Uh I've I've seen a lot of the guys, I I see Mitchell Lee everywhere, right? I see him on the podcast tours, I see I see him everywhere. He's been on the show, uh, done a great job. How are you doing this morning, Mike? How's everything going? Hey, doing great, Pete.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Glad to join you. Finally, right? You've been after me for a while. So uh excited to be here with you this morning and uh share a little bit of my history.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

So uh just yeah, just so you guys know, I'm trying to I'm trying to nail Michael down, and I've I've got to kind of throw jabs at Charles. Charles, help me out here. Help me, I gotta get, I gotta get.

Introducing Michael Bennett

SPEAKER_00 2:15

No, but honestly, this is for the Legends program. And the reason that Mike's here is because he does a great job as the CEO of Buddy's Home Furnishings at the moment, but he's also been a three-time president of April, which is the Association of Progressive Rental Organizations, and one of only what is it two that has made a three-time term?

SPEAKER_01 2:37

That that's what they say. That's what they say. I I think that is correct. I've tied the amount of time, but uh it's been a great ride and happy to turn the reins over to Dan. He's doing a great job kicking it off, and Charles is phenomenal. So the industry and fishermen.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

And so so was this like an FDR thing where they were like, listen, we're we can't he can't go for another term. We gotta fix this. How does it how does real quick, how does the April term work? You you have uh what is it two years, right? Is it a two-year term that you serve, and then you you go back up for let's say uh the recognition of or the ability to take that chair

APRO Leadership And Industry Advocacy

SPEAKER_00 3:15

again, and then the board either votes on it or they just say it's time to bring on a no a new body. How does that work?

SPEAKER_01 3:21

No, every year those that have been elected renounce their positions and are re-elected by the board of directors. Nominations happen and the board votes, and that's how it works. So three years, I think the first time I was elected, and the next year I drop, and then you know, I get re-elected. And so this time I said, Hey, I've been through three, three years. There are other people that are excited about this, and you know, the continuity of APRO is getting everyone's voice out there. And uh, you don't want to be sitting too long, but uh certainly a privilege to serve the industry at that level. Uh, appreciate the confidence in the board of directors. And we navigated, you know, some times uh that we had to manage through. We had to manage through a change in CEO. Uh we had to manage through um, you know, some membership decline and then a bounce back uh with getting membership back up. So, you know, very excited about what we've accomplished, very excited about the um of of where we are today and whose hands it's in driving the bus. Uh Charles and his team, they're doing a phenomenal job and and really helping the board, making it easy, you know, making decisions easy. So very excited about the path forward and and the you know technology that we're getting into, writing books, doing podcasts, you know, making sure that we get information out there about our industry. That's important. The message is important. That's why we go to Washington every year. We we want to get the message out. Uh we want to get the message out not just about our industry, but about the customers we serve. And those customers are both our associates and the paying customers. Really important for us to protect them. And love that as a backbone for the industry.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Well, I gotta say, I didn't know much about Joe when Joe was here. I was more of a I played more of a background situation and I was just an RM. I came and I bought stuff. I didn't really have the same situation that I have now. And then when Danny and I decided that we wanted to start taking on the podcast and start really kind of stretching it out, a little bit more of that when we finally started kind of getting into our stride, Danny made a move and then Charles came in. So in all of that, I really didn't get to meet her that well. But I can tell you right now, from what I can see, and I can't compare as much, but I can tell you, he hit the ground running. He's got a lot going on, and he's doing a very well playing. Uh we talk about this all the time with the uh APRO staff. It's like, it's like it used to be where Waldo. It's like, where's Charles today? And I can honestly say, I mean, he's probably traveled all 50 states three times over at the time that he's been there, but he does such an amazing job showing up and being there, representing APRO and the support that they have and they give and just kind of showing there's a new sheriff in town, and this is a whole different ball game. It just looks, feels brighter, newer, more compliant, more you know, when you have a guy who has that kind of ambition, like you said, we got the book, we got the podcast, there are other things that are in the works, and if you don't know about it, they're coming. It's just nice to see that you know, sometimes people are like, I I don't know what else to do. And then you find somebody with that drive to say, Oh, well, there's a lot. Let me show you what that is. Talking about drive and ambition, when did you decide you know what? I think I should I think I belong to the RTO industry before you even started. Whoa, because everybody has that that that story, and nobody nobody was like RTO before they got into RTO. You think I've had Carl salesman, I've had nurses, I've had all kinds of people. What did the young Michael Bennett do before the the the insertion of himself into the RTO industry?

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Well, uh, how deep do you want to go? That's a rabbit hole, Pete. That's a rabbit hole. I I'd say, I'd say, you know, just a quick snapshot. As a kid, I always found ways to make money, you know, and and we'll just bypass that. Um you know, whether it's Kool-Aid stands, whether it's you know, yard sales, whether it's uh buying candy and selling it for double the cost, uh, you know, whatever I could do to make a buck back then as a kid, uh, we didn't come for much. So, you know, you were hustling, and that that's the key, you know. You you had to earn something. So, you know, but fast forward through high school and college, graduated from Weber College and then got into the hotel business. Actually, I was in hotel sales management and for about nine months. I I got a little bored with it, to be honest. But it was corporate sales, so I did a lot of door-to-door handshaking, uh, a lot of what we do in RTO, you know,

Early Hustle And First Businesses

SPEAKER_01 7:52

getting out there and uh doing that guerrilla marketing. So that came early to me. But that's where I kind of entered into the sales arena. But uh I found an opportunity to open up my own business about nine months in. I I heard there was a problem, and the problem to solve was turning apartments. When people move out, how do you how do you get apartments to be new again for the next tenant? We call the turnkey. And so I heard about it, knew nothing about how to do it, didn't know how to paint, didn't know how to, you know, I mean, clean. Yeah, we all know how to clean. Some of us weren't better than others, but you know, I just said, hey, I could do this. And so I started talking to people, figured out how to get the equipment, and uh decided really to quit the job and start the business. So got into that, learned business management, learn how to do my taxes, learn, you know, all the things that you need to do. Go out, sell, get an account, build a crew, build a team. And so, you know, I was in that. There is some story within that, but I'll fast forward because we have limited time and I don't want to pour to your audience. But, you know, five years in, I sold the business to a competitor. It was good for me, and I exited and got into the healthcare consulting business. So I always loved numbers and loved finance, and I had an opportunity with a company called Stoneburner Associates out of Atlanta, which is where I grew up. And I started with them as a healthcare financial consultant and went into hospitals, doctors' offices, mostly MRI units, actually. MRI was a big thing back then. My job was to teach people, doctors, how to manage their money, how to collect. So enter collections. And what I would do is go into units instead of turning that that's it's that's a ball game right there.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Collections in itself to teach somebody how to, you know, to teach somebody how to bill one thing is one thing. To teach them how to collect on it, that's a whole different ball game.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Yeah, you have to have an approach, but you also have to be a human. You know, you have to talk to people like they are people, you know, treat them like family, but have, you know, understand what the terms are of the agreement and and make sure that they understand that you're there to hold them accountable, but also to help them and figure out a way to get you know that payment. So I spend time uh on uh helping people collect money, helping boards and hospitals, instead of turning your public over to collection agencies and ruining their credit, how do we collect money the old-fashioned way with relationships and commitments and follow-up? And that's really where I learned collections. So there I am at sales, there I am at business management, building teams, and then you hit the ground running on collections and put that together. Well, here comes RTO. The business sold that I was working for, I was asked to relocate and do a lot of traveling, and I felt like after just getting married, that wasn't what our marriage needed. So I turned the page and said, you know, we're staying put here in Orlando, Florida, and let me let me pick up the paper. You know, back then people advertise in papers. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Yeah, I know. It doesn't even happen

Collections, Empathy, And Healthcare Lessons

SPEAKER_00 10:56

anymore.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Yeah, that's uh, you know, when you said the legends, I know you're doing the legends series. I don't consider myself a legend, but I guess from a time stamp standpoint, if you had a paper and you were picking it up looking for jobs, that kind of marks me time. It makes me, I guess, in the ballgame. Yeah, yeah. So um, so you know, I found Rent's own and uh I answered the call, and at that point it was to Rena Center. It was a franchise of Rena Center, the largest franchise they had, and they had uh Florida. And you know, Pete, I went through like six interviews. Today we do an interview and we hire somebody quick, right? I went through six interviews to get a job that paid me minimum wage with a four-year education. Now, why did I do it? I did it, oh, and and by the way, I started on a truck, right? So, you know, not only that, but you're gonna go out and you're gonna make deliveries and returns, and you know, that's what you're gonna start. And that's not what I went to college for, but I met a guy named Tim Hogan, who was at that point a zone manager, a multi-unit, and he really sold me on the opportunity of rent own. And that was back in '93. And I said, you know what, Tim, I'm gonna join Rent Own. I'm gonna join your team because I believe in you, because that's what our business is. It's about people. And uh, as long as you show me the light at the end of the tunnel, I'll keep striving for it. And and if you turn it off, I'm out of here. You know, I'm out. I I'm not gonna waste time and I'm not gonna waste your time. But I've got a mission. I want to succeed, I want to help you, and you're gonna help me progress. I know people say that all the time. They want your job. Okay, great. But a lot of people don't achieve it because that's what they're saying to get the job. I meant it. I meant it. You know, we're gonna help each other. And finding that partnership with that person above you every single part of your career is really important to make sure that you're helping the person ahead of you, but also stressing what you're looking for. What what hey, I need something out of this too. We need a win-win. So that's where I started. And uh I spent the first 10 years of my career working through management into multi-unit management with Rena Center in Florida. And I'll pause there. I don't know, I can tell you go down the road as far as you know the whole career, real quick.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Well, well, we're gonna, we're gonna touch on that. Because honestly, even just stepping back a second, uh, and I believe it was Gary V that said this, and I could I could be wrong. I've I've I've quoted him a few times on I don't know what originated, and I believe it did, but back in the day, that was one of the things that sometimes he looks in for people who are gonna be management or people who have drive, somebody who used to go out and hustle as a youth in different ways. And you know, whether it was like the baseball cards, whether it was the basketball cards, whether it was the paper route, whether it was the candy, and and you know, Buffett started out with the candy, and it was one of those things like you can tell the talent up front. It wasn't you don't need an education for the hustle, you need an education to fine-tune it. And so, you know, when you said that, and then as as you're going, I you know it's funny because I I hear you talking about you know the collections and the sales and it's spoken like a CEO. I could hear it coming out of you as just me and saying it. But you know, six interviews, uh Tim Hogan in 93. Now there are four companies that we're gonna talk about. Am I right? Is it it's it's a Rennes Center, it's uh Rentway, it's uh Aaron's, uh, and then we landed at Buddies, and this is this is where the impact really comes in. That's why I'd like to think that the impact really comes in. But yeah, take me back. Take me back to the Renic Center days, if they're number one on the list, and how did you transition through them? You know, if you could, what was it something that you took away from these businesses? Because even though we do all the same thing, and I always tell everybody, you know, McDonald's is maybe the number one, but Burger King does the same thing in a different way, right? Wendy's does the same thing in a different way. They are completely different entities, yet they all serve what you would sound like is the same thing, but they're not. What was it, you know, as you're going through these, what was something you can take away from them?

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Yeah, I think Renaissance was about a system, and it doesn't matter whether it was franchise or corporate, you had a system that you followed. Um in my day, uh back then, Aaron's or uh sorry, we aren't Aaron's yet, but Rennes Center was very uh entrepreneurial as a corporate as a uh franchise, right? And when we went to corporate, it was very structured, but still the same system. And uh you know, my takeaway was to blend a business. You know, you have to have the entrepreneurial spirit and have the ability to make decisions, but you also have to follow a rigid system at times because it's the

Entering Rent To Own In 1993

SPEAKER_01 15:46

system that actually produces the result. So finding that balance, I think that's what it really taught me. And of course, that first 10 years, I bounced around everywhere. I mean, I started in in Florida. I started in Orlando, I ended up in Miami, I went back, I went up to Gainesville, so I pretty much did the bottom, the middle, and the top of Florida. And um They did send you all over. Yeah. So I, you know, I also honed my skills with understanding there's gonna be a lot of problems, a lot of different people that you're gonna work with, but you have to use that system and you have to encourage people to get what they came here for, not just a paycheck, but you know, find out what it is that they want, why they're here, and how can you help them along the way to achieve that? Take a personal interest in people, and you'll get so much back. You know, some people call that servant leadership. You can you can put a tag down any anything you want, but you gotta serve people. That's what this industry is about. So I think, you know, as I look back, Rena Center at that time and and still today is a very good company. Uh, but I was very proud, and I've been proud of every single company for different reasons, but you know, very proud of that that foundation that Rena Center gave me. And, you know, I look back and and I see one thing that happened. We we were on three times, peak, in my 10 years. You know, the industry the Rena Center had three different managers, and one of the ones at the very end was when Renner's Choice bought Rena Center and Ernie Talley, Mr. T's, you know, early, early industry before my time. Ernie Talley bought that company and he had vision. And I, you know, one thing I take away, and I often tell the story that when Ernie came in, he looked at the business and he said, Hey, we're gonna flip these boxes upside down, we're gonna put what we want in those boxes, we're gonna get core items at great prices, and we're gonna get away, get get rid of all the things that people can afford with a paycheck. We want to get core goods and we want to get them at great prices and give great service. He kept it simple and we understood it. And you know, I watched that company go from fifteen, sixteen bucks a share to eighty and split in five years. So, you know, he had a vision and he made it simple. I mean, the man carried a pocket card around with him with names on it in his pocket of the people he met that were going to help the success of his business. So, you know, I I look at that and say, hey, he's in touch with the people, he's he's out there, he's present, and he has a vision and a strategy, and he's gonna follow that strategy. And I think that in itself, uh, if you can get people bought into that, you can do great things. You can build a culture. But you know, quick story. I was actually on the renter's choice side.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

I I had no idea that we were even going to do anything as grand as that. I mean, renter's choice, I was so busy, again, and we'll get back to this on the truck, because at the time my account management was, you know, get in, get your calls done, make sure that you take care of everything, load up your truck, and then you have to take care of you know deliveries, the services, the returns, the repairs, whatever you had to do, you know, take a lunch, you know, probably go back on the road, try to get some some marketing in as you have the ability to and get a second call through it in a daytime. You know, we did that in shirt and tie, and I remember those days very, very, very well because in South Florida it it was a warm, warm day, uh, as you know. And so uh when I heard about the the whole Renaissance deal, I was I was like, okay, wow, this is this is different. We actually had a Rena Center about uh four or five miles away. And that whole thing was huge. It was huge. And uh when I really started getting into it, because at that point I was just an account manager, I didn't really know much. But you know, as the upper levels of management started kind of filling us in and what was going on when we converted, I mean, it was like you said, it was like this trajectory where we just kind of took off and everything was so important. It was there were so many great names of people that I met and knew back then that are now also probably legends in their own right. But you know, Mark Spee Stana Gobel, a couple of the guys that that were were on top of the ladder, you know, when Ernie Talley, you know, took a step back. And it was just crazy. It's crazy that you mentioned that because that's that's actually my start was in Renner's Choice with somebody who did the same thing. I hadn't I had no idea what Rentone was. And uh he was doing

Rent-A-Center Systems And Culture

SPEAKER_00 20:15

his job by going out there and he saw somebody, saw some what I don't know what he saw, but he said, you know what, I I like you, I want you to come on by. And he sold me the dream. And like you, I said the exact same thing. You know what? I'll I'll try it. But I mean, I was working at a bank at the time, so I was like, I don't know if this is gonna work for me. It's not what I do. Uh but if I if I find value in it, you know, we'll make it go. And here we are, years later. Now I'm not the CEO of buddies, but at the same time, I would tell you that I agree with you 100%. Like if you give that leadership, you give that value, and you create those relationships with the people that work for you, with you, and around you, they will last, they will stay, at least the ones who want to. So that's that's awesome to hear. So then you're doing all this, you're going from Orlando, you're going to Miami, you're, I mean, you're literally the face of Florida. What kind of transition from there to Rentway?

SPEAKER_01 21:08

So I'd been with Rack for 10 years, and some of the folks that started uh on the franchise side ended up with Rentway. And there was an opportunity for a vice president of operations in the Carolinas, and they reached out to me, solicited me. So I interviewed and decided, you know, this is where the next step of my journey begins. There was a couple of promotions that happened in Florida. Uh, I was entertained for that, but unfortunately, for some reason, they decided not to, you know, select me. So I felt like, okay, again, light at the end of the tunnel, right? I I I was here, I was working, I was successful, um, you know, getting plaques, accolades. However, it's not all about that. It's not about the Attaboys. I wanted to progress and I said, Hey, let's let's take on a challenge. That time, um, you know, it was a tough, a tough time to make a pivot because Rentway had just gone through some improprieties, you know, accounting improprieties, and it seemed like from the outside looking in that they were you know done with that. And I saw them as a competitor in Florida, saw that the opportunities they had, honestly, in their operation, and felt like I could make a difference. So I took the interview, and after taking that interview, uh they made me an offer and I moved up to the family, the Carolinas, and I took over what I didn't know. I guess I didn't ask enough good questions, which was the you know, the worst region uh or vision that they had in the in the country. So that was fun. It it definitely definitely caused me to dig deep. But once again, it's about the people. How are they being treated? What are the problems? What are the pain points? Any company I've gone into, it's usually there's been a problem or they're going through a transition. And the first thing you got to understand is what is the problem? What is the pain point? You know, if you can get those whiteboarded and understand what it is, talk to the people, make sure they understand that you understand and that they're going to be a part of the solution and they have ideas, and those ideas are what's going to propel us more than likely to getting where we need to be. That was the Carolinas. You know, I started out with the Georgia division, then it was the Carolina division, they shifted me. But, you know, uh, that was uh that was a tough time. I mean, I made the transition, I was excited about the opportunity, but about a year in, Pete, they decided to make a pivot and ask me to step down or step out. And I don't mind sharing that because we all have struggles in the career, and I've skipped over quite a few of my struggles in the personal life up to this point. I'm not going backwards with you. But but I will tell you, you know, uh, you know, I had I had an opportunity, you know, the the division was was bleeding. After a year, we turned a buck, literally a buck in profit. But that wasn't enough. Unfortunately, they needed a lot more based on where the company had had downshifted from. They had already divested some stores with Rena Center. But uh, I think we had about 1,200 stores and then down to 800 stores. And when I came in, and and so they said, hey, if you'd like to take a region or you can step away. And and I said, Wow, you know, I I hit the gas here, right? I I turned to I turned a profit, although a very small one. This place was on fire,

Renter’s Choice Merger And Vision

SPEAKER_01 24:30

right? But what I loved about Rentway, and I always take away the good. I learn from the tough and the and maybe the bad. But what I learned about Rentway is, and and I'm speaking to all the Rentway people that have been out there, is the welcome, wanted, and important culture. We are family. That was always there, no matter what. And I'd say it strengthened during the accounting and proprieties, and they had some great management. Really. I mean, there was great people there. It's just unfortunate that sometimes people above you or out of out of your line of sight might make decisions that end up impacting a company, right? But the people at the level of execution, us in the field, the people that were in the field, the ones I joined were were phenomenal people. And and that's why I joined. I knew some of those people. They migrated from Comcoa or Renaissance or over. They followed leadership. And so um I did the thing that most people didn't think I would do, which was renounce my title because titles don't mean anything, Pete. They really don't. They don't mean anything. Okay, people mean everything. And so um I took the challenge. I took over what was the second worst out of 102 regions and within nine months, brought it in the top 10. And I did it specifically because some of the people from Florida followed me up to the Charleston area, and I wasn't gonna desert those people. You know, you show your character when the chips are down, and absolutely, and you got to power through and you've got to struggle through with people, that's important. And so I stayed on, and uh we we, you know, at the end, management was kind of bragging, you know, about hey, look what's happened here, and that's good. And that was my cue. That was my cue to say, you know what, I've done enough, and um it's it's time for me to look for something that's gonna challenge me more. And and I don't know if I just got lucky and got out because that ended up selling, the whole company ended up selling back to Rent A Center, and that's how Rentway went away, right? But again, great people, I don't necessarily agree with the decision, but it taught me a lot to you know to take that step. And it taught me it, you know, I learned a lot about myself that you know you can say titles don't matter, but when you say, hey, I'll downshift, you know, I'm gonna go from fifth to fourth or third, and then you help people and you be you you show your again success through those people, well, that's great. And I, you know, when that was done, a few of those people that followed me, I got them back to Florida and with Rennes Center. A couple of those people I left, and I had actually I was solicited again. Um, and it actually was one of my regional managers that I managed, um, James Pearson in Atlanta, made a call to a guy he knew at Aaron's, Tristan Montenero, and said, Hey, you need to talk to this guy. He's like, Well, you know, and I talked to James, I was like, James, what did you do that for? Why did I mean I'm your supervisor? And you called him and told him, he goes, because you're good people. And, you know, I knew that they were looking for somebody in Atlanta. So I hit it off with Tristan. He came over and met me in South Carolina for dinner one night. And and I told him, I said, really, I appreciate it, but I'm not looking for a lateral move. I'm looking for some something else. And uh and that was early. That was after I had shifted down and James had called about me taking over a regional position. And and so I told Tristan, I said, look, let's stay in touch. And about nine months later, eight, nine months later, he called me up and he said, Hey, there's an opportunity here. There's uh, you know, and if I wasn't a VP at Aaron's in my position, I would be partnering up, you know, and and running this company. And so he said, There's an opportunity where I know somebody in franchise is looking for an operator. And so I said, All right, let's I just took the interview and decided this is what was right for me. I'm gonna join Aaron's. And uh a couple of the people that were with me at Rentway decided they wanted to come with me. Uh, and we we formed that partnership. I went over to run the second largest franchise at Aaron's and also was a minority equity partner in the deal. And wow. Yeah. So that was part of the negotiation, and you know, got in and these units that we got were in the 40,000 average range. You don't make money at that with Aaron's, you don't make money normally in rent own with that. And so about three and a half years, well, let's just say once again, went over. What are the problems? Let's whiteboard them, what's the pain points? I wanted to make sure that everybody that came over on

Move To Rentway And Rebuilding

SPEAKER_01 29:15

my team, because it was all multi-unit management, there were gaps to be filled, they learn Aaron's program. And Julie Scott, great person, was a trainer for Aaron's, and I wanted to get my people in those classes and learn and really engulf, digest, immerse in the business that was Aaron's. And so we did just that. We uh all went to a hotel room. I put up big post-it notes on the walls, we wrote down everything we had learned the first month in. We came out with a strategy and uh we went to work. We got the people together, we had consistent store visits and meetings, uh, set the strategy, set the tone, and we started following the program. That was one of the big issues. We've we followed the program. We we engulfed, we we got involved in the in the purchasing program, we got involved in the marketing program instead of just trying to buy what we thought was the right thing or something cheap. Marketing, you know, you gotta do it, right? You you gotta touch new faces. And and and Aaron's you know, had a website and had a flyer and you know, had a guerrilla marketing program, and so we went after it. But um, three and a half years in, we hit I think it was 111,000 average per store. And at that point, it was time to divest. That was right around 08 when the Great Recession hit, and uh ownership said, hey, look, I think this is the right thing to do. And at that time it was the right call. I I felt like we had so much more to give, built a beautiful team. The people were awesome, and again, people, people, people. And I was just fortunate to be, you know, in that leadership position and and helping those people along the way.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

So I would tell you, I I I actually literally have on here, where were you in the 2000, 2007, eight financial crisis? I literally had that question on here. And it's funny that you come across that because uh I think it affected a lot of us differently. You know, I wasn't in that situation, uh, but it it's it's very different. And, you know, the welcome wanted, important, you're not the only person that has brought that up from that era, from that, you know, it was something that stuck to a lot of people. And it's crazy how many, many, many years later, out of all the things that I hear, being in the position that I'm in and talking to the people that I I I see, that's something that comes up quite often. It was it was a great part of the culture that they built, and it was amazing to hear that. So if you're looking at where you've been and what you've done, how important uh were the setbacks? Were they just as important as the successes?

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Yeah, I mean, look, that's like that's like sharpening the sword, right? It makes you stronger. Um at any time you have a setback, you have two options. You can either complain about it or just try to justify and complain, which is a no-no in my book. That is management principle 101. Do not justify and blame. If you are a person that wants to justify and blame your performance, you're going nowhere. So you gotta accept it, you gotta face it. Hell, write it down. No, write it down and look at it and say, okay, I can't figure this out. Who are the people around me that I could talk to that could help me figure this out? You know, bring people in. There's a lot of talent out there, and titles don't matter. They don't matter. People matter. Anybody, anybody, you know, big old tires, you know big old tires? I heard about this one time. So I was in a meeting, and I think the the guy that was running Big O' Tires talked about how they saved it. And I guess there was a problem at one point. I took him for his word, and they were gonna go bankrupt. And they brought everybody together, you know, all the guys in the white shirts that were the managers, and they brought everybody together into a meeting and they said, Hey, what can we do? And they didn't have an answer. So they went out and it got on site and they brought their people in and said, Hey, what can we do different to save this company? If we don't do something to get our revenues up, we're gonna we're gonna close, right? We're all gonna be out of work. And it was as the guy said, because I don't label people like this, but I'm gonna quote it. He's he said, There was a guy, a grease monkey. Okay, a guy that works on cars, his hands are all dirty, he's in the back of the pack, and all the management's up front. And he goes, Hey, I got an idea. And he says, What's your idea? He goes, I think, I think when people pull in the parking lot, we ought to run out there with our clipboard and we gotta find out what their problem is and we gotta fix it as quick as we can. Now, I think that's kind of how he said it. But the deal was get to the customer quick. You know, people are getting into our parking lot, they're walking in, they're waiting in line to be serviced. Get out there at the car, find out, hey, what's going on? You know, how can I help you today? Start making notes, walk them in, turn them over, and let's get them serviced. You know, let's take care of them. That right there supposedly saved that company. That one idea. So titles don't matter. That's what that taught me when I heard that. It's people that matter. It's the ideas. And sometimes trying people's ideas, even when you know that maybe you think you've you've not tried it and maybe it didn't work for you, it doesn't matter. It matters about the passion of the person that wants to try it. They may actually do a better job than you. So don't doubt people.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

I got a little bit Did you ever have one of those? Did you ever have one of those occurrences where there was some time that you were you were you were up against the wall, there were things that needed to be figured out, and somebody on your team or somebody from the same team, whether it be the rent rental center team or the right way team, that came up and said, Mike, I think this is a great idea. I don't know if it's gonna work. I think this is a great idea. And implementation kind of showed

Titles Don’t Matter: People Do

SPEAKER_00 35:05

from the grassroots side of it, from the from somebody who sees it every single day, the solution, almost as simple as that seems, was a little bit out of grasp and thought. And now somebody brings it to the forefront and we use it, and there it is.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Yeah, I mean, look, there's so many opportunities where, and I'll I'll approach it from this in management, you're gonna talk to people and they're not always gonna agree with you. They're gonna have their own ideas, and sometimes it's just it's just better to allow that person to go out there and do it, even if you think they're gonna fail. You know, you asked me, have you had those moments where you know you fail in essence and you learn from it? Uh you've got to let people fail. That is that is part of the job. You just have to minimize the risk, the downside risk of that failure. So, yeah, all the time. You know, it could be, you know, someone says, I want to run this marketing promotion, and you're like, Yeah, we ran that, and I've seen the data on that. But you're like, you know, they're passionate about it. They're passionate. You know, Phil, you know Phil. He was on the call the other day and we were with the marketing group. That's probably why it popped into my mind. And he says, Hey, you know, we we want to run the Cyber Monday, and you know, we want to do a discount. And and I'm like, gosh, you know, there's franchisees that don't want to put discounts, you know, in these things. They don't want to give money away, especially at Christmas when people are going to be, you know, putting money down. And I'm like, well, you know, hey, what if we just do, you know, pay a week, get a week? I mean, that's like the oldest promotion in rent owned, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:42

You know that was chiseled in the first listings of what happened to Rent to Own and the first EDDMs buy a week, get a. I think that was my mantra for the first two years of my rent to own career.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Yep, yeah. And so, you know, I say that thinking, okay, anybody would accept that. You know, any franchisee would be like, yeah, I'll give them a week down. You know, so if you want to put an offer in there, go ahead and put that in there. Maybe that's a starting point. Now, it doesn't have to be my idea, but and then I people start asking me, well, why, why, why just a week? And I'm like, well, why not? You know, specifically, we market to different channels, right? And over 80% of the customers that put in orders at Buddies online are new customers. They're maybe seeing our offer for the first time. We internally think, oh gosh, yeah, pay a week, get a week. We're not excited about that. Everybody's seen this. Everybody's seen this. Yeah, we're not excited about it. But what about the new person that's never gotten into our industry or never seen an offer? That that could be like, wow, you know, I can spread it thin to win. I only have a hundred bucks, but if I could put, you know, 30 down here and get this, I've got 70 that I can spend somewhere else for presents. So we talked through all that, and again, adults want to know why, so you explain the why. And all of a sudden people started getting energy and they came up with a promotion. I got the heck out

Transition To Aaron’s Franchise

SPEAKER_01 38:05

of the way. But it wasn't my idea. I threw something into the punch bowl, and they ended up deciding what else was going in, and ultimately they drank the punch.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Hopefully, some of the biggest fires come from the smallest sparks. And just giving them an idea and letting them, you know, understand it, grow with it, and have ownership of a part of it gives them that buy-in to say, this is gonna work. And I I think half the problem or half the situation that we face right now is that you know, it's not that the idea is good or the idea is bad. It has merit or it doesn't have merit. I think the idea is if you have the buy-in from whoever's pitching this idea and whoever's implementing it will be a vastly different outcome than if they don't. And you can have some people who have the same tools, the same, you know, uh, hey, I got to buy week, pay a week versus let me show you the opportunity that I have for you today. You came in on the best day where you can only put, you know, whatever this dollar amount is, I can stretch it out for you and we can make this more happen. And it when you compare that to somebody who's just, you know, it is what it is. I think this is an old promotion versus somebody's like, I don't care if it's old or not. The idea is that I need to make the best decision that I can for the customers that are walking in my door right now for this fourth quarter to make it happen. This is what we got to do. And when you have that buy-in, how different is the outcome? Regardless of what you're doing, how different is that outcome? And then, you know, as you're looking at that, you're and you're coming away from that. So you said that this was at 2008, right? So where did you go back into rent to own immediately after that? Wasn't there a small gap between that and budget? Not that one.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Uh backstory, Pete, and you know, talk about struggle, right? When you're a father and you have two daughters and a wife, and you've made a commitment that if you're going to have kids, someone's got to be at home raising those kids. You know, I grew up latchkey. I grew up for a period of time through divorce, single mother, taking responsibility as the older sibling to get things done. And uh, you know, when you find along your career, it pivots, changes. I mean, that was a big jump going for rent a center to rent way. That was not only was that renouncing my title and taking a step down, maybe taking income down, as I recall, but that affected my family. You know, I mean that that's what you learn is how to we deal with people, but you know, there's the business side and there's the personal side. You gotta manage both sides when you're dealing with people. Now, as people in business, if business is going good, don't mess up if personal, don't bring you net the negative in for personal something's going wrong there, and vice versa. Keep one half, keep one half in good state, right? But yeah, um, what happened around you know 08, we we we ended up selling back to uh Aaron's, and I stayed around to close down and transition the business over to Aaron's, making sure all of our co coworkers transitioned right, felt good about the opportunity of joining corporate. I mean, really, we ran the business like corporate. So it was an easy transition within the same uh system for them to make that pivot. But at that time, um, and then Ken Butler, who I will always be indebted to.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

Anyway, I love Ken. When I had him on the show, it was an amazing, it was an amazing time. Just even being around him was amazing. I grew I grew up with him. He was one of those legends that I never thought that I would ever get to meet in my life. And when I did, I hate to say I was a little bit of a fanboy, but it was just great to sit down with him and have that conversation because when I grew up, especially in the Renaissance days, Ken Butler was a boogeyman. He was like, Erend is around the corner. That is something that we have to work for, we have to make happen. And and he was he's he's a he's a force, he's a force de jour for sure.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Yeah. Yeah. So he I met, you know, I had met Ken early on, and he had tracked our franchise and tracked me. And at the conclusion of this, he came to me and said, Hey, you know, I'd I'd like to have you come to Atlanta and sit down with me. I'd like to talk about you know the potential of you staying on with Aaron's. I have an opportunity for you. So I, you know, I traveled down to Atlanta and Ken and I talked, and he said, Hey, look, I've got an area up in the mid-Midwest, Rust Belt area in Canada, and I'd I'd like for you to be a VP of operations

Strategy, Training, And Turnaround

SPEAKER_01 42:39

for us. And you know, that was that was just you know phenomenal. I said, Okay, you know, where do I have to go? And he goes, We'll pick somewhere up there. So I moved my family to Fishers, Indiana, which is the northeast side of Indianapolis. And uh much colder than Florida. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, much colder than Florida. So, you know, bouncing Florida, South Carolina. Now I'm over in India if you're tracking. And so um, you know, he asked me in a at a conference, he blurted out to me. I remember one time, and everybody was, you know, in there at a company. And I said, Bennett, what are you gonna call it? And one of the guys, Greg Belloff leaned over, good guy out of out of the Carolinas, he's a VP, still today, I believe. He um he said, Hey, you know, because he's from there, he says, Great Lakes operations. So, and I think, all right. And I said, Great Lakes Operations, Ken. And he goes, All right, well, that's what we're gonna call it. And so I kind of dubbed it glow. I turned that into, you know, I love EDM music, and so, you know, I love I I love that glow, right? I love the lights. And so, yeah, we had fun with that, and you know, I was up there six years in Indianapolis serving Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, lower half of Ohio, and northern half of Illinois, and all of Ontario, Canada, which was corporate at that time. Time. So yeah, you know, I was up there for six years and things changed. It, you know, not to go into Ken's got a book if you, if he, if, if you want, and you're still a fanboy, you know, shout out to him and say, Hey, can I get a copy of your book? It's a great read. Talks about his history. And, you know, Ken Ken found his way out of errands after many, many years, and that was very unfortunate. And a lot of the, you know, there were the people internally that said, geez, you know, we hate it. And and and the company started changing. And then there were people, you know, that were supporting the new camp. And and many of them still there, but a lot, some of them still there, but a lot of them pay homage to both. You know, they learn from this transition and they've you know continued on. Matter of fact, Julie Scott's still there. She'd run a franchise operations, and I think she's uh just hit her 20th anniversary. I think it was 20. Sorry, Julie, if I'm wrong. But um, but needless to say, um, you know, I I was in there for six years. We were making a run at opening up a lot of stores, and then yeah, I got I got time off. I was affiliated with a person who was trying to, through the company he owned, trying to buy errands, and uh management didn't take to that. Now, they knew from day one that I was on the advisory council, but all that meant was I get a call now and then about rent own, and and it was more so for the owner than it was for me. But I said, hey, I have nothing to do with that, didn't even know. You know, I I think management was a bit protective back then, was a little concerned, it had changed over, Ken wasn't there, and um I got uh I got a year off, Pete, and that's another you know dip in the career. It's like, whoa, wait a minute now. I've I've been in this career like 20 years at this point, literally, and um, I think 22 around that time. Really? I mean, wow, and here's my family again. I'm sole earner. But you know, I look, I signed the deal, I took the year off, and during that time I was, you know, uh talking to different people. I couldn't I had to stay out of the industry, but there were interested parties, and I waited out the time and stayed connected. And uh, and then when the

Great Recession And Exit

SPEAKER_01 46:10

year was up, I was actually on my way to Florida to do some scouting. Ownership at that time had offered me to come down and said that the opportunity to run buddies was coming open. And I said, you know, I'd I'd love to come down and meet the people, visit some stores without, you know, don't tell them. I want to see the culture as it is. And I I bought into it and I thought, hey, this is great. But but uh I made a second trip down to to to do another visit. It's a big move coming back, and on my way back down, I got a call from Rena Center. And uh then they said, Hey, we'd really love to have you interview. And I said, Well, I'm actually going down for my second interview and probably gonna accept this position, but if you want to talk, you know, I'd I'd love to talk with you. And they said, All right, we'll fly you out. So they flew me out when I got here and I interviewed back at uh in Plano. And after going through some interviews, I I decided the right thing for me at the time was because I don't think the buddy's opportunity was ready just yet. The family that had been a part of it were still running it for the new ownership. And I said, you know, I need something to sink my teeth in. I need stability for the family. I I you know I love Rena Center. They taught me an awful lot. And uh, you know, why not? They have this thing called Acceptance Now, which is the virtual rent owned. The guy that's running it, Mark Denman, met him, just loved the guy. And the guy that was working with him as his uh first up was Ron Schoolcraft. And Ron was really running the the operations, uh helped to to to really start it. And uh he was my assistant manager back when I was a regional manager in Tallahassee, Florida.

SPEAKER_00 47:56

And I remember going I gotta tell you, yeah, it is so amazing. I tell some, I tell everybody all the time, you know, in the world of rent to own, I have seen the shift of people in the business, whether they follow you to another company, and not following you, but you know, you guys end up together in another company, or you will end up working for someone who used to work for you, or vice versa. You know, as large as this industry has become, it's still tight-knit to the point where you can come across people that you've been with four years later. I've even done it here. Uh, I've done it at ranking, I've done it here, and it's you come across these people, and as long as you keep those relationships and those values the same, and it's it's it's amazing what it could do for your career. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

And hey, just to back up a minute, you know, from an Aaron standpoint, love the company, love the culture. You know, every company transitions. I don't, I I didn't leave with a bad taste in my mouth, other than I thought they made a bad decision management at that time, but I understood why. You know, I think again, you look for the reasons, and a lot of people have hard things in their life and they keep telling people about these hard things and how it hurt them. I look back and say, how did it help me? I wouldn't be here today talking to you, Pete, if that hadn't happened. So I look back, I mean, this is no way I look back and say, thank you, Rentway, for you know, pushing me and giving me the struggle. Because if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be where I was at. Rentway gave me the opportunity to meet Jason Spearson, who gave me the opportunity to meet Tristan Montenero that got me into Aaron's and franchising. And Ken, I met there and got me in on the corporate side. And then, you know, Ken was gone, new management was in, I got

Setbacks, Ownership, And Resilience

SPEAKER_01 49:45

a year off. Okay. But there are still people when you do the right thing by people, and when you do the right thing when nobody's looking, you know, people understand your integrity. They can trust that. And stick to that because you know, don't don't lower your integrity for other people and their greed. You know, you you need to make sure that you are who you are and you stay true to yourself, and the people around you will see that and they will want to be a part of what you're doing, right? At whatever level. That's important.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

But when you take all the you take all these experiences that you've been through, because you have, I mean, this is this is so far, this is a story. You've got you've got a long list of things that brought you here, and then at the end of this, you end up where you are in a whole different situation where you're literally running this company, a very large company that has great some great franchising uh opportunities, and you get here. How beneficial was it, would you say, that you ended up being in Orlando, CEO of Buddy Tone Furnishings in the situation that you're in now? Like, you know, I always say, God bless a broken road. I mean, it's always one of those things that that you wouldn't have been able to do what you did if you didn't finally get here. And as the CEO and and former three-time champ president of APRO, what does the future look like? In your opinion, you know, as we kind of wind down, what is your opinion of what's where we're gonna be in rent to own in the next five or ten years? I mean, you you were in the driver's seat of a company that's trying to do a lot of good things. Where do you see us going? Where's the direction?

SPEAKER_01 51:22

Yeah, I think first of all, people that would say, hey, rent own, you know, is is dying out, or rent owned has had a lot of ups and downs, uh, just like any business. But you know, it's been around since as far back as I know, with Aaron's Charlie started in 55. That's as early as Charlie Louder Milk started the business in 55. And there may be others, but that's the one that I've worked with. And I would say every business has a cycle and you have to stick to it. The one thing I look at for demographically, economically, is that you know, we continue to create people in the income demographic, right, that this industry serves. And I don't see that going away. So there will always be that opportunity out there for our industry. Certainly, the industry over the last 10, 15, 20, say even 20 years has pivoted. You know, there's more virtual rent to own that is out there, and we need to embrace it. We need to understand that virtual rent to own brings more people closer to us. When I started, rent owned had a bad name. You know, it had a bad name. It does not have a bad name today. Every business has people that have issues with their business, and every people has bit you know, people that love their business. That's just current state, anytime. But when you look at this industry, um, I think we're bringing more and more people into it because of virtual rent to own. And even buy now pay later to some extent is an extension of rent to own, getting the product now and making payments on it. So I think the pivot is that more and more people are using these products, which provides us an opportunity. We just have to stay focused in the brick and mortar world, which I live in, and also, you know, web. I mean, we do web orders, we do, you know, the internet, we follow technology to gain customers, and and that's going to continue to advance. But the key to this business, if you're in brick and mortar, is about this, Speed. It's about me and you. It's it's going to be about you are the final mile, the last mile in this. We've always been Amazon. We've always been Amazon this industry. Before they were built, we were doing the model. Direct to door, white glove delivery, show you how to do we were doing beyond what they do, right? And we still do today. We got to keep doing that. You know, we got to keep taking care of our customers one at a time, making them the number one rule that we serve them. They may not always be right, but we gotta find a way to work with them to stay in touch, stay in business. So I do think that no, there that will continue to exist, no doubt about it. I think, you know, with I don't want this isn't a class in macroeconomics, but you know, would certainly say that right now people are having a tough time. You know, we're going through a cycle. You're gonna see a little, you're seeing a little consolidation in the industry. You're seeing some butterfly effect to COVID. People don't want to talk about COVID anymore, but I mean the reality is the decisions we made and what happened in COVID to our business, as I tell people, it took three years to screw it up. It's gonna take three years to fix it. So 2026 will be those six years we buy. And I think the people that have the sight, the vision to understand that in itself will get through this cycle, and they'll be the ones that come out strong, and they'll

Aaron’s Corporate And Great Lakes Ops

SPEAKER_01 54:55

be the ones that don't. And that's just business cycles. But I I think we're in a little consolidation, and then I think we'll come through it. But while that's going on, we need to advance in the technology. We need to learn more about how technology can service us. So that I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but ultimately if you're in rent zone, you're listening to this, you are in good shape. All right, we're gonna we're gonna continue to be strong, we're gonna serve our public, uh, we're gonna get our message out, both at the state and the federal levels. You can be assured that our industry will continue.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

So hopefully being a part of April has been something that I've always I've I've appreciated from day one, whether it be uh, you know, when just seeing what Charles is doing or a lot of the members or yourself as the president, um, it's been great. I love the fact that Dan Fisher is taking that that role, not because you're not in it, but because I just love Dan and you've kind of served, like you said, you kind of served and you're good and you're ready to step back in the 100% of the uh CEO of of Buddy's Home Furnishings, real quick, some real quick things I want to get from you. What is, from your perspective, the best book that you've read this year?

SPEAKER_01 56:06

My. You know, I've it's actually a book that I've read um, you know, previous, which is the 21-year feed, the laws of leadership. I often go back, I don't read the whole book again, but you know, going back and reading like the law of the lid, you know, um, you gotta reach higher. You know, we we all think we have a lid, but you know, the minute that we think that we're gonna hit that and we can't get beyond it, that's the problem. You know, you gotta reach higher. If I ask you to reach right now, turn around that wall and reach up as high as you can, I bet you you give it your best. But I'm gonna ask you to reach higher, and I bet you're gonna get up on your toes. And I'm gonna ask you to reach higher, and I bet you're gonna find a chair to stand on. And if I ask you to reach higher, if you're the right person, you'll go find a ladder. You know, and you'll just keep on climbing. It's it's you know, so book-wise, I often go back to what helped me at a certain point. Failing forward is another great book that that I've I've read because you know, when failure hits you, especially when you're at this level, you don't have a lot of people helping to mentor you. And so when you look at failing forward, it's all about understanding that failure is okay. And you may take two steps back, but let's take three steps forward and make up one step. I mean, let's figure out how to get there, and failure is a part of life. It's embrace it, don't blame and justify, embrace your failures, and you'll come out stronger. You will.

SPEAKER_00 57:37

I agree. Yeah. Taking a step back, but in the same direction, what is the best book that you could recommend to anyone on your team this year?

SPEAKER_01 57:46

You know, I I know you don't want to hear this, but I'm gonna say the same book. And the reason I say that is there is actually a um you can buy we put uh when I was on the Aaron's franchise, I put everyone through this. Every week we did a chapter, and you did a chapter of the 21-year feud of laws. There's actually a workbook you can buy with that. We have not done that at Buddies, actually. So if I were going to to do it, I I look back at the success, and if there was anything, gosh Bennett, why didn't you actually go back into the well and do this? So, Pete, you might find that I'm gonna go do this now.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

And they're gonna say if anybody says anything, you say, Listen, you call the RTO show and you let Pete know, Phil, I'm sorry. It's good, it's it's coming your way. So, you know, one of the uh two books that I'm reading, well, I just read uh one book that I'm reading now is Never Lose an Employee Again by Joey Coleman. Um, that was suggested to me by Chad Fosdick. Um we were we were at a meeting very recently and he he suggested it. That was a it was a good book that I'm reading now. And I just read Ego is the Enemy by Ron Holliday, um something that was suggested to me by Will Jackson from R R Tire and Express. And I can tell you that one of my goals that I started earlier this year was every time that I meet somebody that we have great conversation and there's something to be talked about. If they recommend a book, if it's more than one, I'll pick one, but I'm going to at least try to read a book that anyone ever recommends to me because I feel like it's important to not only take that advice, but see where they're coming from and learn. You know, we've all been here, we've all done that. How can we learn from each other? Well, maybe I could read some of the things that you've read. So I would love to read as much as Mike Tissett, but I could tell you right now, he's got like 10 books on there every time he goes to the Leap program or he does something, so I've got to pick one out of his many, many, many books that he has on there.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

If you want books, I'll turn it around because I've got them. You've got them too, huh? Yeah, I think I yeah, I've got, I mean, I'll give you some books uh if you don't mind me turning away. No, go ahead. Uh I love gapology. Gapology. Gapology. Yeah, which is a book of you know, where there where there's problems, there's gaps, right? And so how do you fill the gaps? Another book. Uh start with why. You ever heard about that book? Oh, I did read that. Simon Cynic. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely great book.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

Good one. Let's see. What else is you know, one another one book that he has is the Leaders Eat Last. I didn't really uh I that was a recommendation from uh Joe Milligan. I you know, I wasn't sure

Year Off, Integrity, And Networking

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

where that was going to be on my list. I was looking at it. I said, you know what, I'll just stop. I already read one Simon Sinic book. I did enjoy it, and uh, I actually really did enjoy that book as well. Yeah. I'll tell you right now. Listen, guys, if you guys want more book recommendations from Mike Bennett, you let me know and I'll we will reach out and get you a library of things that he wants you to read and look out for. Some of the great things that uh, you know, I tell you the takeaway from this, Mike, is that regardless of where you are, what you're doing, do the best that you can at it and uh make sure that you learn from the trials and tribulations as much as you do your successes. Never give up, keep on striving forward. And you know what? You might just be able to one day be somebody that says, Hey, you're a legend, and I want to put you on my podcast, and we can talk about what you've gone through and what you've done and led to the career that you've had. Mike Bennett on the show. Finally, I appreciate it. Tell Phil, I'm sorry that things are coming his way, but hey, we all learned from what's going on, and I hope that I help him in some way. Right. If you guys have any questions or anything that's going on with the Legends series, please feel free to reach out to the show at Pete at the RTO Show Podcast.com. You can go online, you can buy the swag, find out what's going on with the show at the rto showpodcast.com, and you can hit us up on all the social media platforms. And I think that, you know, uh Mike be in there as well. We're we're everywhere. Everybody tries to be everywhere. All the new RTO platforms that want to be everywhere. Well, we are on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube where you're gonna see this. Mike Bennett, I appreciate you being here with me. I appreciate you taking out the time and explaining your story, um, the places you've gone, done, the ups, the downs, uh, the books, and uh the idea that, you know what, teamwork is 100% the way to go. Lead your team, you know, and and make sure that you get them involved in your success. So with that being said, is there anything anything that you want to end this on, any note that you want to say, you know what, from the Michael Bennett, this is what you should know. People.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

I mean, seriously. Business is about people. If there's anything I can give you, don't shy away from them. Engage with them and find the right partnerships, and people will take you places. There you go. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:27

Thanks, Mike. I really appreciate you being on the show. And I will tell you guys, as always, get your collections low to get your sales high. Have a great one.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

Thanks, Pete.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:37

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