How Self-Awareness Turns Good RTO Sellers Into Great Ones

Charisma is the quiet force that can make an average pitch land and a perfect pitch fall flat. Pete sits down with Arky Jones from Australia to unpack why some people seem to “read the room” instantly, how emotional intelligence shows up in tiny nonverbal cues, and what sales leaders can do to coach those skills without turning their teams into robots. If you’ve ever watched a rep with less product knowledge outperform the expert, this conversation puts language and structure around what you’re seeing.

We go deep on self-awareness as a skill you can build, not a trait you’re born with. Arky shares his 1% principle for steady improvement, the control versus no-control filter that reduces stress, and the idea that personality is a mirror, not a box. That difference matters in real workplaces: personality assessments can help hiring, training, and communication, but only if they stay a tool rather than a label that steals agency. We also talk about when to retake a personality test during periods of change, and how tracking patterns over time can make leadership development more intentional.

The second half gets practical with behavior change: neuroplasticity, manual overrides when old defaults creep in, and a grounded take on stoicism as a toolbox option for managing pressure. Arky explains blind spots as outdated protection, plus one of the most damaging workplace patterns, holding others to standards you won’t hold yourself to. If you want better rent-to-own sales training, stronger team communication, and a clearer way to coach people as individuals, you’ll take a lot from this one.

Subscribe, share this with a manager or rep who cares about growth, and leave a review with the biggest blind spot you’re working on right now.

Transcript

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Pete Shau 0:11

Hello and welcome to the RTO show. I'm your host, Pete Chow, and today I've got an amazing guest because I want to look a little bit in ourselves. And when we're talking about what we're doing on the sales point, we're talking about our people and we're talking about what we're doing around us. This is a good way to see it. But first, make sure that you guys subscribe to my newsletter. Go to the RTO show podcast website. Make sure you subscribe to the newsletter. Get a little bit of swag. You know you want to be one of us. And listen, it always helps out the show. But today, my guest is a special guest because he's created something special that I want you guys to hear about. My friend Arky Jones, all the way from Australia, is it right?

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Yeah, yeah.

Pete Shau 0:47

How is how is the weather down under? I see everything in Europe right now. It's it's just blowing up hot everywhere. How's the weather down there?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Well, I'm I was lucky for I moved into a four-season place, so in the east to south of the east. And so I'm right in the middle of winter now, hence I've got a jump. Uh I just adjusted the heater off camera and uh I've got my hat on, but it's very, very pleasant. So we don't get the coldest colds of the UK or or like the the Americas, but we we don't we get we do get very, very warm summers, very warm summers, but it's it's it's a drier heat, it's not muggy.

Pete Shau 1:22

I'm gonna tell you right now, I'm jealous. It's hot

Welcome And Newsletter Invite

Pete Shau 1:25

out here, right? Because we're I guess I guess we're right, we're on opposite hemisphere. So right now it's cold for you, it's warm for us. And uh, man, it's killer outside. It's killer outside. So, Arky, tell me, there's a lot that you have built up in the last few years. You have really gone deep into personality, into self-awareness and what's going on around you. And I know that going into this, we can definitely bring this to the sales floor, we can definitely bring this to our management style. But first, let's get started with you. How did you get started in this? Where did this personality idea come from? And I gotta tell you also, I love the accent, man. I it's great. I love English accents, man. But where did you where did it all start?

SPEAKER_01 2:02

I appreciate that. Well, so it's it's a really good question. And I'll be honest, if I was to pinpoint a definite start, it would change depending on my mood, on the the where it started, you know, on what day I was on. But let me just say this from a very, very young age, and it I don't know whether it was my family or my my background or my environment, that I was often fascinated, even like from the earliest memories of why a teacher might treat one student one way but another student the other way, for apparently the same thing. Or as you grew up in in a workplace where there were some favourites in a workplace, or there was some who seemed to always be in trouble, even though for me I'm quite a when I say a wooden thinker, I don't mean wooden is in one-dimensional. I I like things to be equitable and fur. So I I'm very attuned when I see things that don't quite add up. And so throughout my life, no matter what I did, whether it was schooling, military, um, just general workforce, I would always, I always notice this pattern that there were certain personalities that seemed to be able to carry things off, certain ones that were incredibly charismatic, others that were always the butt of the jokes, and and some that were were unduly um treated, and others seemed to be treated above their actual competence levels.

Why People Get Treated Differently

SPEAKER_01 3:20

And so, so because of that, I was like, okay, so so what is what is that? And then I pulled it into what can I control? But ultimately, that was that's the the the very overarching that and and to this day I'm still aware of it. I just have much, much better insight into what's going on. It doesn't mean it it's fully solved, but it's certainly, certainly that uh that that dynamic through through my whole life. I was I was able to see it, and it didn't sit well with me, and I wanted to understand it better.

Pete Shau 3:51

You know, I can tell you right now, I've spent years in the sales. I've done I've done RTO now 21 and a little bit over years, right? And I've seen a ton of different salespeople come and go. And one thing that I've always told them is charisma is like the unsung personal human power. Like somebody with charisma has the ability to get a lot further in life than sometimes the people with the knowledge. I mean, you're talking about expertise and operational knowledge, and somebody who just has the ability to talk to people, really get into their mindset and kind of sit with them person to person, and they can get further. I mean, they just have a way, a swag of being and a way of being. And part of that is why I wanted to talk to you today because I've seen that time and time again. I've seen guys who have product knowledge down to a science. They can tell you why the feet level, they can tell you how long the warranties are, they can tell you how to switch out a motor, but they can't make the sale. And I've got guys that I've I've rarely seen with this, you know, with a ton of charisma go out there. They don't sometimes they don't even know the ins and outs. They're selling themselves. They're selling, you know, they're selling what they see as a program. And I've literally seen them look at the look at the wall and go, it's over there, I see this

Charisma Versus Product Knowledge

Pete Shau 5:06

over there, I got this. And it's that that self-intern feeling, like, I can do this, I got this, I have that charisma, I have that mindset, and they kill it. And they will take people who honestly are in the same position, who know completely different things, and it will go in an opposite direction that I would think it would go in because of that, because of the way some people handle things in the way others don't. What is the special sauce in that? And how can we use that? First off, let's start at the beginning. How can we identify that in a way that's going to make us go, okay, that's what I'm looking at?

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Well, it is it is interesting. You've you're obviously aware of the concept of emotional intelligence, okay? And emotional intelligence is is an interesting one in that they've managed to exactly what you said, some boffins have managed to put it down into this science where they take a quiz. But but actually, if we take a step back from the quiz to tell you how emotionally intelligent you are, which one could argue that you could game the system quite easily if you just read a book on emotional intelligence, that what it could with with these individuals, there'll be a it it isn't any one given event that's brought them to this point. So at some point in their in some point in their younger life, they would have learned that that maybe sugar is is sweeter than salt. And so they've been able to use that in their family homes when they were younger, use that with their teachers, and they've noticed patterns across time. And you'll probably also notice with these individuals that let's say a small eye movement or a small mouth movement, they can pick up on that very, very, very quickly if they're making someone uncomfortable or they're making someone uh go down the path they want

Emotional Intelligence On The Sales Floor

SPEAKER_01 6:49

and rapidly change directions until they're able to basically get the cues that they need to know that person's been malleable into that state of of the buying state in this particular case. Now, the other thing is that what we see, Pete, that's interesting is with these people, you would likely see the wins and the charisma would last through the losses, but they will cut their losses very, very early when they realise they're not going to get a sale. And so if you look at their time per person spent, it averages out to be quite a high sales volume. But but I would I I do wonder, like the statistically, if we average that out over a year on total customers that were acquired versus how many was, you know, how many were there, then that would be an interesting one. And then the other thing is remember with these people that their foundation is built on the very fact that you do have the experts, they've got this knowledge from somewhere else, they've just been able to be tuned into how to how to pick up on those non-verbal cues, but also just naturally have the right pitch, connotation, appropriate eye contact. So, I mean, let's face it, dude, some people are just awkward as hell. Like, I I it yeah, it if I don't get my right doctor, I get the Aspergis doctor, I'm like, oh Jesus, you know, can you just show some personality? You know, absolutely. Yeah. I I and so sorry, the the the short answer is that it is, it's not like you definitely can teach it 100%, but I just don't want people to feel disempowered. It is it is a journey you must up embark upon. It isn't something you could attend a seminar and be able to do, it would be too forced.

Pete Shau 8:34

So let me let's let's say this. Let's say I'm a guy, I'm green to the sales, but I'm hungry. I want to know something better, right? So I get the product knowledge down and I'm heading customers and I'm still not getting it right. I'm just I like something's going on and I'm starting to look within. I'm saying, okay, maybe it's me. Okay, I got it. That's okay. So now I find you and I say, okay, let me let me study on me a little bit. Let me find out about my personal and what I'm doing. If I'm green and I just walk in the door today, in your opinion and what you do, how long does it take me to get to that avenue? Where it and I'm green now. I'm talking about it, I'm not really good at it. How long does it take to get somebody from that journey from point A to point B where you can say, hey, you know what? Arky thinks you're all right. I mean, yeah, where does that come in?

SPEAKER_01 9:22

What what I try what I work on is this principle of the 1% principle, which is that every action you take should be 1% better than it was previously. And so it as long as you set your mind to it. And if I can I just get a little bit philosophical one second and then I'll pull this back to exactly what you're asking. So if we if we agree that the universe came from something, and before that, the universe existed was infinite potential, and then as the universe began, light came. So let there be light. This is not a god thing, this is a this is a pure creation thing. Let there be light, okay? So then now planets, stars, they make up 5% of the universe, 95% of it is dark, so that's one thing, and then the second thing is the universe in a continuous state of change. And we as humans are part of that universe, therefore, we are in a continual state of change. And so, how do we affect our change? It's with our attention. We and how do we do that? We shine a light onto the dark, and so the first thing I would say is that the salesperson who is green, who is keen, who is ready to roll, but just doesn't have the minerals at this point in time, is

The 1% Principle And Attention

SPEAKER_01 10:37

the they're already winning because they m they're willing to shine a light at what they don't know. So, in doing so, they acquire more information, more data, and and and there has to be a keenness. Now, they must not come in with the endpoint set because they do not know what they don't know. They must come in at the very, very ground level with okay, what can I do so that I can acquire the information to do this? And one thing that you've mentioned earlier, Pete, is the actual information isn't to be the guy that knows how to, you know, change the oil in the motor on a boat. And I mean that right down to the level of the spark plugs and and the filters, you don't it doesn't have to be that, but it also doesn't have to be just pure charisma. And so one must one must balance their skills along that path. And so in a time frame, you'd look in. If someone's willing to shine a light, every single day they can do something better, every single day. And I but they must be willing to ask the question of themselves. And what that comes down to is the question I ask myself is what is within my control and what is without what is outside my control. So let's say I work for you, Pete. What is inside my control is how much effort I can put in, where I can shine a light on what I need to learn, the information I can garner from the people around me. What is outside my control is if I need to come to the manager's office because I'm underperforming. And then as that new data becomes available to me, I can then either modify that behavior or you continue down that path, and then obviously we all we all know what happens. And so the the key for this is the time frame is not set, but any given day, anyone who is willing to accept that they are human, they are fallible, and they are not perfect is opportunity to work towards that.

Pete Shau 12:31

That's that's I try to tell everybody every day, especially because I do a lot of training. And in training, you know, they're always there's always that mind. They want to get it right the first time. And listen, we all want that, right? We all want that. But it's it's it's it would be unfair for me as somebody who's been doing this for 20 years to look at you and expect you to come in and get it right the first time and get it right every single time after that. Because then they probably wouldn't need me as a trainer, right? They'd probably say, like, I could you can watch a video, you know, you can come in here and watch it. So, you know, and and and we try to we try to push that and say, hey, it's okay. It's okay to mess up. There's gonna be a time frame where you're just even trying to understand why am I doing this? Why do I get the name and phone number? Why am I getting the email? Why do I say, hey, how are you doing today? How may I help you? Whatever the case is, I'm not gonna push you towards that. I'm gonna let you guide me to your pain points because the truth is I could want to sell that all day. But really, as important is I solve your pain point. You tell me what you need, and then I go over there. So that that idea is great. Now, you mentioned in your workings that personality is a mirror, not a box. How does it explain that to me? How does that work? All right.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

So the the the fun this is the funny version, but it will it will make sense, okay. So I've I've really, really hated anyone putting a label on me my entire life that that he is that or he does that or he, you know, defined from the external. So my validation, I I realize that a validation that is true to me comes from within, okay? And my agency must be, I can take feedback from the outside world, but my agency must be s sovereign, sovereign to me. And so the mirror concept is that I might go in, I might check the greys in my beard, I might put a bit of moisturizer on my eye bags, um, I might, you know, check there's no toothpaste on my mouth, but I'm looking in the mirror at that time. And so a personality test, a a test, a quiz, a personality, when you're looking, it is what you see at that moment in time. When I walk away from the mirror, I might have beans on toast and I might get some beans in my beard, but I don't know that, and I then go out and face the

Personality As A Mirror

SPEAKER_01 14:43

world. So for me, the mirror is a snapshot in time of where you are now. Whereas a box would be you lump it all in, you close it, and then and then that is a self-contained unit that is already complete. Whereas it life, life for me, personality is is a tool, it is an interface. I separate it quite distinctly from the soul, and and it is something that can be moulded over time with the correct attention. And so if you look in a mirror, you see yourself at that moment. The same with your personality, your personality. I mean, let me just take this back to what everyone can relate to. Are you a different person with your mom than you are with your dad, then you are with your brother, than you are with your sister, than you are with your friends, than with your manager, than with your mates. Are you a different person? Do you hold yourself differently?

Pete Shau 15:29

Ark, you're you're you're killing me here. I'm trying to think of all the different people I've got to be now. And now you're making me feel kind of like, I don't know, man. Yeah, I know, absolutely, for sure. Because the guy that knows mom doesn't know the business side, you know, when I'm talking to mom. When I'm talking to mom, it's more about our history, how we handled things, how we got through things when I was younger. Now my mother's getting older. How am I gonna deal with that now? And all the stuff that I learned at work and all the self-help and all the growth and all the career has never made it. Even the podcast itself. I would love to say that, you know, she understands a lot of it, but she she doesn't do that part of it. So that guy is completely different than when I go see the fellas at work. And I'm talking to my colleagues and my coworkers, and we're talking, you know, we're sitting around the table and having you know conversations about growth and about how to solve you know certain issues that are coming up and marketing and training that comes up. And then the guy who has a beer at the bar, he's not that guy either. So you're right. Absolutely, in one situation, uh depending on who I'm looking at, it's completely different. Now and that's the mirror. Yeah. I mean, it's so the the personality peak, what does that give me? We go on there, we we start doing what we're doing. What are we gonna see should we start investing in that?

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Oh, no, absolutely. So, firstly, let me just say that the the idea with this was I've built this as a passion project, so you can access a lot of information even without an email. You can take the quiz and then get an answer. So I just want to make it clear that if people at this point, if they wanted to do it, there's there's no tie-in. You get it, you'll get a reasonable answer. There's more back end, but but yeah. So what it does is I looked at Myers Briggs, which gives you 16 potential outcomes. I looked at Big Five, which is a bit more vague, and many of the others. And there was a few things in my life, for example, I remember one seminar I attended with this personality guru that was asking me what colour was I, depending on which mood I was in. And and I just couldn't understand what colour I was, because I don't associate colours with mood. It just blue is blue and red is red, you know. So there was there were there was all that. So what I thought is okay, because I I do like pattern recognition, as I mentioned earlier, I thought, how what what would be the way to allow someone to make the most accurate representation over themselves over enough dimensions that it is meaningful and it is broad enough that I'm able to achieve it in one lifetime, but narrow enough that people take individual meaning from it. So the the balance I figured out

How Personality Peak Measures Traits

SPEAKER_01 17:58

is that every dimension you add is to the power, it's basically to the power of two. So if you have four dimensions, you get 16 outcomes. If you have five dimensions, you get 32 outcomes. If you have six dimensions, you get 64 outcomes, and then you know, extrapolate that 128, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so six dimensions for me was just the right amount of nuance that you could really, really drill down into getting someone's traits mapped, but and but broad enough that it was achievable. So once you start pushing out beyond that, that the the data computation has just become basically too much work. It it's impossible. And the other thing I did that was distinct is I wanted people to be able to put a percentage on on how much they believed a certain statement to be true. And then that percentage is calculated uh and then and then you you come with your outcome. Now, what you will get from it is the strength, your blind spots, but what you've got to remember is that the stuff that you select is is things that I've tried to create situations that most humans will have faced at some point in their life and and and and everyday environments. And the idea is that you answer it of where you are right now, and it will give you it will give you a really detailed down to the 1% of where you are with that trait at this moment in time. The other thing is if you did choose to log in, again, that wouldn't cost anything. You can track your personality over time because I believe that I don't believe they are fixed. I believe it's something that we can work on and we can improve. Uh, and just quickly, Pete, just with the mum thing, the soul that you have is exact, I believe, is the same. That really, really core you. That doesn't matter where you are, but the behaviours, the way we we impose ourselves on the world, the world, that that is that is something that we've we've we've developed over time. So to back to the back to what can personality peak do for you, it will give you very, very specific insights into where you are right now, not only from all the good, but also all the all the things that maybe can be oversights for your type of personality. And I, if you'd like it in a moment, Pete, I can give you my example when I first took the quiz of of my oversight because I it it's been profound for me. Yeah, I absolutely.

Pete Shau 20:21

Let me ask you a question. What what are usually the biggest misunderstandings of of like personality tests and personality types? You know, somebody goes into and they take a test and they really don't know what to expect out of it, they have these misconceptions. What do you mostly come across uh in situations like that? Let me ask you something. Are you getting everything out of your rent-to-owned business? If you're not an APRO member, then the answer is probably no. Look, advocacy is April's bread and butter. This is why they were created and what they do best. But here's the thing April membership is about way more than advocacy. April connects you to the movers and the shakers of the industry, people who've been there, done that, and they can help you do it even better. Apro's monthly webinars give you expert insights and actionable takeaways. Got questions about complex regulations or sticky situations? No problem. April's legal hotline gives you direct access to experts who have got the answers. That's a peace of mind that you can't put a price on. And let's not forget the resources, news, updates, and tools that keep you ahead of the curb. Scholarships for your team? Check. Disaster relief when you need it most? Double check. APRO is your ultimate support system in the rent-to-own world. Head over to rtohq.org and join the APRO family today. Because in this business, more isn't just better. It's essential. See you at the top with APRO.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

The most unfortunate one for me is when people say this is me. I am this. And and I they're so they're never supposed to be used that way, in my opinion. They're not supposed to

APRO Membership Message

SPEAKER_01 21:55

define you, they're supposed to cast a light on where you are right now in your life. And so I think that we humans search for meaning throughout throughout our life. And we we we look for stuff to validate where we are. We we latch on to the stuff that we like and disregard the things that we don't like. The other thing is that it should only ever be used as the same way a screwdriver can be used to tighten a screw. It can also be used to open a tin of paint, as you know. It's not primarily designed for that. So there is there is areas it can personality tests can do a little bit more than that than set on the tin, but they should be used as a tool to shine a light onto your strengths, your weaknesses, and basically the the in-between like relationships, the the way that you handle yourself. But they they should not define you because if you allow that, that comes back to the agency issue. And we're already, if you look at the modern world with social media, with fast food, with advertising,

When Personality Tests Become Labels

SPEAKER_01 22:58

with politics, we're already being told all the time who we should be, what we should be, how we should think. And what I try to do with people is is pull them out of that and remind them that you are made of that same stardust I mentioned earlier, that same material, that same infinite potential. But therefore, it is up to you to cast that light because no one's gonna do it for you. If you let the world tell you who you are, the world will damn sure tell you who you are. Personality tests shouldn't be used that way to tell you who they are, in my opinion. They should be used as a small insight into where you were you are right now, but you must ask the question of where do I go from here?

Pete Shau 23:41

That's a great point because when we hire people, right, sometimes and depending on the position, because not all positions warrant it, but depending on the position, we start out by giving them a test, right? So let's say they're going into assistant management, management, regional roles, and let's say they haven't been it for a while. We might give them a test and see, okay, if I'm gonna utilize you, I want to utilize you to your strengths. At the same time, I want to bolster your weaknesses, and I want to see if I can play on the other side of that. So if we see, so when you're not doing so well, I can see if I can come in and where you're doing great, you might not need me to come in. But as you come down, I want to do that. So, okay, that comes in. Guy comes in, I get them. First day, they've got a personality test. How long after that do you feel maybe I should do it again because maybe this person is in a different point of their life and I might not get a reflection of who that person is from the first time that I did it?

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Yeah, I do, I recommend every two to three months for people that are actively searching, who are actively trying to grow or are going through a period of metamorphosis like the new person you've you've hired. Because what you would hope is when you hire them, you compensate them in a way that is adequate, that they work hard for you. And and what they do for you is

Retesting And Hiring For Growth

SPEAKER_01 24:56

they bring in enough. You you want them to bring in enough that justifies their worth. And so what you're trying to do is actually create a symbiotic relationship uh between the organization and the self. And and what this does is what you're doing is effectively you're outsourcing computer, compute for brain power to to staff. And I mean, just an interesting one, just an interesting one. Each one of our nucleuses contains about 800 megabytes of data, and we've got billions of them in our body. And so when when an organization works, if you think like when people say like AI this or AI that, AI only has a certain amount of nodes. Each human can bring a magnificence that cannot be spoken from anywhere else because it is it is innate in each of us that we have that ability. So your recruitment, you need to aim for people, in my opinion, and this is this is across the board, you want some people who are rock steady. They have this almost set in stone, which is not fixed, but almost set in stone, this is what they can do for you. So, say, for example, that you need a machine cleaned to a certain standard every day, you want the guy that's going to get in there and clean that damn machine every single day to that standard. And you don't want him to have great ideas about new cleaning methods, you know what I mean? When when this is the manufacturers-approved guidelines. But if you've got guys on the front line who are dealing with your your junior staff, you want them to have a charisma, you want them to have an ability to this is this is this is one even with my kids. I've told my kids from the very, very first memory of when when it was required. I don't mean this as a default, is I am not your friend, I am your guide. And and this is the same with with these these people. You you want them to know, you want people who can grow, grow into the business, but also have a strong sense of self, but that is that is something that you can ply into what your business, because they are the face of your business at that level, and so you it's a big risk, to be honest, and that's why what a person I condescend is is tell you if that person is someone who is we're open to change or or they're quite rigid, that's definitely one aspect to it, and then the other aspect to it would be just to give you that overall view of where they're going. And so, for example, I got the free thinker, and when I first took the test, I'll be honest with you, Pete. I was absolutely, I won't use the word, but you know, scared as hell. And and and and I came out with the free thinker, and one thing the free thinker told me, it was like, you are very quick to read a room, you are very quick to solve problems, but it suggested that maybe you can be too quick and you don't let other people speak. And so I used to always pride myself on being the first to speak because I often 80% of the time what I said ended up being the the solution. But let's say 70% of the time, anyway, I've since I since I've done this on this journey, I now choose to be the last to speak in a room unless I'm called upon to speak, unless you said, Arki, you know, what what what do you think? Of course, I'm not going to stay silent like some some weirdo. Um, but but but outside of that, I'm the last to speak. And now I have more data points available to me. And often I don't even need to speak anymore because the solution is found by the seventh person. I and so and so what I'm trying to say is that I think that the most important thing in the leadership roles is someone who is willing to shine a light on themselves and continuously grow and evolve, but also take feedback immediately from yourself and from their juniors and and and sift that to find out the valuable stuff. But I think, like I said, the the joke earlier about the guy that cleans the machine with the correct oil, you you also don't want him to try new new oils.

Pete Shau 28:47

Right. Yeah, and I I totally understand that. You know, there's a part in in some of the stuff that you talk about about people getting into their you know a cycle where they're kind of going through the same thing again and again and again. And I know that part of going into your personality is understanding what type of person I am, what I default to. So if I'm a manager that believes in a certain way and things get rough, I might default back to what I know. Doesn't mean it's the right thing. It means it I default to what I know. In the overall, how does somebody break those personality cycles that are that are almost like built within them? That they're their their fallback go-to, this this is the guy I am, right? And and like you said, you don't want to define that. You don't want to be defined by that, but how do you get them to change it? How do you how do you get somebody to look at it from a different point of view and say, you know what? This might be the road you're going down, but this might not be the road you want to be on.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

So what we'll do for this answer, Pete, is we'll exclude the extremes. So we'll exclude immediate danger to life or limb. Or you're in you're in you're in paradise and somebody's feeding you grapes and you know, fanning you with a palm leaf. So we're somewhere in between those two, okay. Most people at most of

Breaking Old Cycles With Neuroplasticity

SPEAKER_01 30:03

the time. Now, I think the first thing I do with with people when I talk to them is I actually let them know about neuroplasticity. And um, neuroplasticity is the fact that do you remember they used to say when we were kids that you can't teach an old dog new tricks?

Pete Shau 30:19

No, all the time.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

God, that was something I heard over and over and over again, right? Well, yeah, I and and that was that was genuinely believed by science to be true. And as we know, science isn't always you know what it seems to be, it it continuously evolves. That's the thing, you you ask the question, you find the answer. So, one thing I do like to tell people is neuroplasticity. You have the ability to learn new things your entire life, and every time you do, these new pathways are created in the brain. Yes, and those new pathways, the way they are forged, then ultimately form new memories, new options, and new directions in life. So, firstly, I let people know they can change. Once they understand that, you actually empower them to embrace the opportunity that that change can bring. And so while they may for a while pull back onto that default programming, eventually the new default will take over as they keep applying it over time. So if they keep applying the newer practice over time, the other thing to do is because you have that self-awareness, is as you see those old behaviors slipping in, you actually do a manual override. So it's it's almost a hard stop, and you push yourself to answer it in the way that it doesn't, that that is not your instinct. And then, but you give yourself permission that if this new method doesn't work, then I will fall back because you don't want to have, you know, you don't want to feel powerless. But eventually, once you've tried that new method a few times, let's say 70%, let's say 50% of it is better than the old way, or 50% is better than the old way, and 50% of the old way is better. What you'll generally do is you actually then create, which is what I went back to earlier, that change is the only thing consistent in the universe, and we are not an exception to the universe. Yes. And so, therefore, you actually create your own model that is a hybrid of the improved way and the original that gives you the optimal results in that moment, but then be willing to modify as you go. Because the thing with personality is we are all so different. So your best leaders need to be able to, and I I don't say this as in like as in a shapeshifter for for like you I'm not saying you'd be fake. I'm saying the best leaders can. I I tell you one thing that drives me crazy. When someone, when you see some leaders and they go to one group and they put an accent on and then a different group and put a different accent on. I mean, that's that's insane. It's like if I come on now on this show and out and was like, howdy, folks, you'd be like, who is this bloody lunatic, you know? And where does he come from? But sorry, that that's my only word in American I know, but joking aside. We we must, I think we must wear a mask. And the Japanese have this idea very, very well, although maybe a little bit too rigidly, where they have two selves, they have the heart and the face, and they don't they have the self and the self. And and so I think for me, what I would advocate is that you are someone who can adapt to any situation, and that adaptation is the skill. And where you how you get there is with repetition over time. So if you start to put your attention in one direction and you go in that direction, you will you will become you will you will start becoming what you act. And it sounds crazy, but it's very, very true. Because if you can blow your life up in a day, in one day, you could blow your entire life up, you could ruin everything you've built, or you could make tomorrow better, or stay static. And and I think that knowing that you can blow your life up in a day, that means that you can make the you can make the next steps of the rest of your life also in that same day and choose how you want to act. And then the last thing, Pete, I I try to teach people just for this particular area, is your thoughts are just thoughts and they do not define you. You think about how many different thoughts you're having a day, Pete, and think if you acted on all those thoughts, you wouldn't be kept in society, would you? Do you know what I mean? If you act on every thought you had, like you're in a shop, like you're driving in a car, someone cuts you up. If you acted them all out, you'd you'd be you know, you'd be looking at the world through a crack. And uh but we don't do that. So this is what I say is the spoken word and the actions in the physical world, they are what have consequences, so make them count.

Pete Shau 34:54

I I couldn't, you are so right. You are so right. You know, there's something that I that I've seen in some of the wording uh that you have and some of the things that you you say is stoicism. Stoicism is God, I think nowadays you hear some people say it with a lot of grit, and some people say it not so much grit. So when you're talking about stoicism and how it pertains to your personality and where it's coming from, can you describe to me how it affects us and and and what differences stoicism make in our personality?

SPEAKER_01 35:29

Look, stoicism for me is is one option in my toolbox. I actually don't I actually don't believe that anything is right. I just know that what works well for me in given situations. And and I I've I've never been fond of men or or people trying to define to define me or anyone else through like this is what we do, this is why like dogma. So let's let's so it's not a dogma, in my opinion. And so what it what is it? Let me try and answer your question. For me, the misconception about stoicism is like this kind of wooden, like, you know, guy

Stoicism And Control What You Can

SPEAKER_01 36:09

that just doesn't care about anything. That's kind of one stereotype. For me, a stoic, they must feel to the deepest well of their heart of love. They must feel joy the deepest they can feel. It is their duty. They must feel respect, honesty, loyalty as well as they can, as much as they are capable of, and take responsibility to the fullest they are capable of taking responsibility to. But they must not take responsibility for one percent more than that. So it is what it comes down to me is to control what you can control to its fullest and own it and let go of anything outside your control. And just it it is it is of no bearing on you. You may have an awareness of it, but it cannot define you, and you should not put attention to something outside your control. So, good examples would be if you're up at night with ruminating, you know, the brain's going off and off and off, and and and the thought is I have unpaid bills. Go to the kitchen table, open the bills, put them down, map out how you're gonna repay them, move on. If you're ruminating about will the weather tomorrow allow me to go jet skiing, then move the hell on because it it's not something within your control. Will will ex-politician make this? It's it's not there's very little benefit in putting thoughts to it. I I don't mean fleeting thoughts, I mean, you know, you are ruminating on a subject. So if something can be done, do it. And to be honest, this helped my marriage. So my dishwasher, now I don't leave it full. I if it's if it's clean, I'll empty it. And if the sink is full, it I'll I'll clean it and put it in the dishwasher. And and what that what that meant was is that by doing that in any given moment, you applied that to your life. And so it was within my control, it was something I was able to achieve, therefore I did it. And then it's not sitting at the back of your head as this unsorted chaos. So to come back to to the stoic, the the narrow stoicism view I want to just talk about today is control to the fullest what you can control and then let go of what you cannot. I mean, we can always discuss like cardinal virtues and all that, but it's it's kind of like it wisdom, courage, justice, temperance. But it this is all buzzwords. I think for me, what it comes down to is self-authorship and self-ownership to its fullest. But do I but do not ever take responsibility for anything you are not responsible for? It makes life so much easier. But you own your stuff. So if I made a mistake at your company, Pete, I would be like, look, yep, that wasn't right. This is what I'll do better next time. I and it just made my life so much simpler.

Pete Shau 38:55

Well, I mean, it's it's well put. It's well put. So if you have somebody that comes in and they're looking for, let's say I've got a new employee and they come in, they rank a certain way on their personality test, and they are interested in making changes and being different. Do you, in your opinion, do you do you give them the guidance and say, hey, this is a self-made journey? Or do you go along with them in the sense that, hey, you treat this a certain way, I will do my best to help you figure out a way to get from point A to point B. How does how does that work in a work environment?

SPEAKER_01 39:31

So let's say that we are on the battlement of a castle and we're surrounded by enemy.

Pete Shau 39:39

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SPEAKER_01 40:30

You have to believe that you can there is a way out, and you have to believe others are with you, willing to stand and and pay a price. And and and so if you take it down to that really base instinct, is is there a chance that something good comes from this? And am I with people who I value? So then you bring that to the modern workplace. Okay, you want someone who is willing to grow. You must lay

WoW Brands Sponsor Message

SPEAKER_01 40:58

out a pathway for them to do that. And so how you can how you can do that is one is they can take the value in the self, in the growth journey itself. Also, what you can say is to them is that an incentive-based process were look, if you hit these milestones, you don't need to tell them the Pacifics about the the revenue or anything like that. If you hit these milestones or these jobs are done, then we could in our annual review, there are these available future promotions for you, but this would be the benchmarks too. And I'm I don't mean the carrot stickers in they can never get the carrot. I don't like that. The carrot is achievable, but only if the goals are met. And I think also keeping your word, so as I mentioned earlier, the spoken word, I genuinely believe it has meaning, it has value. And so if they can see that you are someone that when you speak something or you act something, that that then becomes the truth. I think any human being is inspired by that because they know that they can trust you. So the they must have it within themselves willing to grow. But you as a leader, even if that feedback is just initially through encouragement, through getting them on some courses that that would benefit you and them, and then later on, look, you're actually stepping up, let's put you as a team leader, let's give you a tryout as in an acting position, uh, because they can then see that their effort directly correlates. And as much as I dislike money, and I don't mean that I don't mean that I mean it as a concept, okay? I wish there was a better way that we could reward reward people. It is absolutely essential to life. And so ultimately, what you can do is if they perform certain targets, incentivize it through that way, and then they can buy a little bit better cut of beef and a little bit nicer quality of rice.

Pete Shau 42:53

I mean, isn't isn't that what it's all about? Just being able to live life a little bit better, a little bit easier, uh, you know, have your guys work a little bit smarter, go home a little bit earlier, feel a little bit better about the day that they had. I mean, isn't that really what it's all about at the at the end of the day? You know, something that I'm curious about is, and you kind of touched on it just a little bit, was communication. You know, if somebody is using what you what you're talking about and kind of looking within and being able to see who I am and then being able to help map where I want to go, how does that help communication in the workplace? Does the you know, me figuring out maybe I'm a little bit more introverted than I thought, or maybe finding out that somebody else is introverted, or maybe they're extroverted, or maybe they're dominant, or whatever the case is, how does that help somebody navigate the communication in the workplace to get a little to to get better, to to do something? I mean, is it can it be used as a northern star, or is it really not that useful?

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Okay, so it it's it's a fascinating question, Pete. And I could give you some kind of scientific spiel about blah, blah, blah. But the truth is we uh as humans. We can track around about 150 bits of data at any given time. We can refocus our attention to new data, but we can't keep pulling it all in. So if say you've got a team of 50 people, there's no way that you could possibly remember, you know, the the the the 18 points about this individual, you know, across that time. So it it it you we just don't work that

Communication And Better Team Debriefs

SPEAKER_01 44:22

way. Now, what it would do, what it would do though, is let's say for example that there were some behavioural quirks were that were identified in the in the workplace. And then and then you did that you did a test at that time when those behavioural quirks were being identified, particularly if you did like one one service that I offer is I it it's it's a separate from the publicly available stuff, but I offer business-specific quizzes where they might identify problems in their workplace, and we we basically map out what their workplace looks like and and applied dimensions, how many like you go four, five, six dimensions. We discussed that off off offline to how deep you want to go. Um I don't like going less than four dimensions for different reasons, just so you get a good valid outcome. But in that moment after the event, it's definitely a great debrief tool because what you can do is you can see traits that have manifested to certain strengths, and then you can look at the causation, like what's brought that. And and the other thing is when I when I say this, and uh you wouldn't have hired this person, and this is not about anyone's employee, this is just in general. There are airheads in life as well, and they can manipulate. And and so sometimes you're just going to meet a narcissist, and I and in these cases, you'd you'd have to have strong employment policies. But let's say outside the extremes again, for every average day, absolutely anyone who is willing to shine a light will see, and anyone who is willing to divert attention will in into any given area has the opportunity to grow. And they do have a really good way of externalizing a difficult conversation, but also externalizing it with data points so it then doesn't become a he said, she said thing, it becomes like, well, this is what you're feeling right now. Let's talk around this point.

unknown 46:13

Okay.

Pete Shau 46:14

I'm I'm just reeling it all in my head. I'm actually playing out scenarios as they happen because at 20 years, you see so many things, and you know, one thing about being on the show and being able to talk to guests like yourself is that I've I've I've been able to go back in my life and see some of the things that I've done and go, you know what? That's why I love talking to this person. Because that was the moment that I could have used this advice, and I want to give that to some of the people that listen to the show and say, hey, you know what? You know, if if this helps you, this is what I want to give to you. Now I want to put you on the spot just a little bit. I want to put you on the spot just a little bit. You mentioned some other, you know, personality tests that I have used that I know that companies have used. Why would I go to Personality Peak versus some of the ones that colleagues use? What is the advantage? What's the pull point of saying, you know what? If you use this versus that, this is what you're gonna get out of personality peak, and this is what my my uh you know, understanding, my expertise, my knowledge is gonna give you. No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

So let's be crystal clear. One one must ask, what do they want? So, firstly, if you want a clinically validated tool that academics have decided is worthy of a label, then I'm not I'm not the guy. Because it it it it was always done with the aim that life is a game that we play. And the more fun we can have along that journey, the better it will be. And think about your best memories. It's when you've been enjoying yourself. It hasn't been something that's been forced upon you. So the entire concept of fun is baked into to my quiz. But let's get to Pacifics. What Personality Peak actually offers is a 2

Why Choose Personality Peak

SPEAKER_01 48:00

to 1% accuracy over six dimensions of exactly where someone is at the moment they take the test. That can be mapped over time on a timeline. So you can you can work on areas and you can specifically improve strengths. The other thing is with some of the other quizzes, particularly let's say there's 16 outcomes, look, 16 outcomes is so broad that that you could actually fit a massive amount of the population with clever wording in into those categories. This will give you quite a niche specific, but again, you're much less likely to change a personality when there's so few. Whereas with 64 and the small tweaks can can modify that personality into a different into a slightly different framing. So what I what my test does is I believe it gives as accurate as possible down to 1% of where you are right now. And it does not want to ever tell you this is who you are, it wants to tell you this is where you are, this is what you can work on. And also, I don't actually pretend strengths are always perfect. I sometimes ask people to reflect on can strengths be weaknesses, and then the final thing that you do is I use a system called the three-way, and it don't worry, it's nothing weird. I know, I know. Fundamentally, it gives stoicism, nature, and and and the peak way to come at every problem. Uh, and then the the peak way accumulates with the K as a keep or a kill. Uh, I I I won't spoil it for people, but fundamentally, I I I this test acknowledges that life is the only thing uncertain in life is change. And and that change is something that need it can either be you can either be told who you're going to be, or you can you can choose to take the reins. I and I think that we are bombarded by so much from the outside. I I ask people to look within, and I don't pretend to be any more than that, that you are in control, this is a tool for you, and and it you have agency over what you do with this. You might read it and think this is rubbish and do nothing, but you know what? That in itself has got value because you have put your attention into a state of doing. You have thought, you have acted, and you have a consequence. Whereas if you've spent five minutes doing this on your phone, then you you are a passenger. So, what personality peak does is it puts you in the driving seat. I want it put you in a state of question, but I've aimed to give you as accurate as possible results over as many dimensions as possible.

Pete Shau 50:35

So when you mention that, because you also mentioned in some of your your reading, and first off, I want to mention you're an author. So we're gonna get back to you being an author. So I really want to mention that before we, you know, before we go out. But, you know, you say that it also shines a light on blind spots. Can you help me with that? Help me dial that in. When you say a blind spot, and is that a personality blind spot? And it is it to show me something about myself that maybe I just didn't know that I can work on to better the outcomes that I have in front of me, whether that be dealing with my employees, whether that be dealing with customers, whether it be dealing with myself, because the Lord knows I have enough conversations with myself to last contact, you know, a lifetime. But like those blind spots, what do they show? How do they show?

SPEAKER_01 51:19

All right, so the ver so let's say we're we're we're total blindness, okay? So you cannot see. And and therefore, we we all let's let's say a good example of this is let's say that uh let's say that let's talk about the spacesuit from NASA, okay? So NASA invented a spacesuit and sent Neil Armstrong to the moon and Buzz Aldrin and some other fellow that went around it, okay? And uh and and they came back to Earth and the spacesuit served its purpose on the moon, okay? It was it was perfect, and it was it the engineering was genius and they could survive an environment that could not otherwise be survived in. But if if Neil Armstrong had come back to the earth and carried on to wear the spacesuit, you know, on Earth, that would just be weird. And so it's bloody useless. And so blind spots are things that that we may have once developed as a tool. So we may have built a callus at some point in our life that we have integrated so much into our life, we now see it as normal. But that callus that once protected us no longer serves a purpose where you are now. So say

Blind Spots As Outdated Protection

SPEAKER_01 52:33

you were bullied at school and you have that defensive mechanism, or you, you know, you will not you won't tolerate it, you've got a low tolerance for idiot. And so what blind spots are is something that once served a very valid purpose that no longer serves a purpose, but we hold on to it, but we refuse to see.

Pete Shau 52:58

Arky, you've been you've been just kind of the best is talking to my because there's so much about internally that I want to learn. So you might see me on there, but the truth is I want to I want to get into like how if somebody wanted to try Personality Peak, if they listened to this and said, Hey, you know what? That sounds like something that I want to try with my guys, with myself, to see my fight have blind spots, to see if I can do something different with myself, where would they find you at?

SPEAKER_01 53:26

Yeah, so guys, remember it's a personality peak. So P-E-E-K, so take a peek at the personality. And and the the reason I I've also the if you type peak P-E-A-K, you won't find me. I do have that domain, but it's it's it's it's just redirected. Anyway, what what the idea is is if you come in, you can take the quiz absolutely free, no login required. All my socials are on there as well. I I think what I would ask anyone is that this is I've made this, I've put a lot of work into it, I've spent a lot of money on it, but I've done it because I believe it will make people's lives better. I believe it will add value, and that is what I want. If you choose to join the community, please sign up. If you choose to dig deep, please, please feel free to spend some money with me. But if you should extract a lot of value at no cost to you other than your attention, but remember this: your attention is the most valuable resource that you have, and where you put it is the direction you will go. And so, right now, if you find yourself thinking, I'll pick up my phone and Doom School Twitter after this, maybe switch over to personalized peak, spend five minutes on the test, ten minutes digesting the free information. And if there's something you can do, just do one thing. And if there's nothing you can do because you're already the perfect specimen, then no worries.

Pete Shau 54:51

I love it. One last question, because I want to know. I'm just curious. What is the most common blind spot that you see? What is something that you come across? What is the common blind spot as we as we as we go out? Something for people to think about, some people to take with them.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

I would say that it's very likely to be contradiction in the self. And so you may work with people that hold people to different standards or the higher standard that they don't hold themselves to. And the reason that's a pretty difficult blind spot is that they've they've understood at some point in their lives that this high standard needs to be met. But for whatever reason, they don't apply that same standard to themselves. But the problem with that type of personality in a team is that it causes disharmony because human beings are very aware of furnace. This goes back to to when we were in tribes and people having to pull their weight with helping with the babies, with with hunter-gathering, blah, blah, blah. Yes. So unfortunately, like people who live in who are comfortable living within contradiction, particularly where they are the benefactor, is one of the biggest blind spots, but it's also one of the hardest to cure because by the very nature of the

The Most Common Blind Spot

SPEAKER_01 56:05

contradiction, it shows that they're not not willing to apply the same standards to themselves to the others. And and the the way around that is time, unfortunately, is investments and in pointing it out in a way that facilitates growth as opposed to punitively, but yeah, contradiction. And to this day, when I meet people like that, I have to take a hard swallow.

unknown 56:27

Yeah.

Pete Shau 56:28

Well, you know, it's the old adage, do as I say and not as I do. That sounds like a big old blind spot. Arky, I really appreciate you being on. Guys, I'm gonna tell you as always, I love talking to new people. I love finding different ways that we can bring to the RTO industry. This one, looking with inside, see how that you can change and make good changes, get other people to see those changes, lose the blind spots and make it better. If you guys want to know more, always hit me up at the show at Pete at the RTO Show Podcast.com. You can hit up my email all the time on any social media, send me some DMs. I love talking to you guys. Make sure you go to the website at the rtoshowpodcast.com. Make sure you scroll down, hit a subscribe on that newsletter because you're gonna get information that you don't get here. And guys, I appreciate it. Arky, that was a great conversation. I love having you on. We're gonna have to talk a little bit more because I got some blind spots that we need to talk about. So thank you so much for being a guest all the way from Australia. Thank you so much. And I'm gonna tell you guys, as always, get your collections low to get your sales high. Have a great one.