The RTO Show "Let's talk Rent to Own"
Ever wondered how a $8.5 billion industry keeps millions of Americans lounging in style? Step into "The RTO Show Podcast" – where the mysterious world of Rent to Own furniture finally spills its secrets! Your host Pete Shau isn't just any industry veteran – he's spent 20 years in the trenches, collecting the kind of stories that'll make you laugh, gasp, and maybe even rethink everything you knew about that couch you're sitting on.
From wild customer tales to industry shake-ups that'll knock your rented socks off, Pete brings the seemingly mundane world of furniture financing to vibrant life. Warning: This isn't your typical business podcast – expect real talk, unexpected laughs, and "aha!" moments that'll have you looking at every lease agreement in a whole new light.
Whether you're an RTO pro who knows your depreciation schedules by heart, or you're just curious about how that fancy sectional ended up in your living room, Pete's got the inside scoop you never knew you needed. Tune in and discover why the furniture business is anything but boring!
The RTO Show "Let's talk Rent to Own"
From Basic to Beautiful: Heath Perkins on Elevating RTO with Quality Rugs
Enjoy the world of quality rugs in the rent-to-own industry as Heath Perkins of Daylan Rug Company shares the remarkable journey of bringing fashion-forward floor coverings to a market once dominated by afterthought accessories.
When Daylan first approached the rent-to-own sector over a decade ago, they encountered a surprising reality: most stores were content with basic, low-quality rugs that did little to enhance their showrooms. "Fashion was not even in the conversation," Heath recalls, describing how some dealers would simply request "12 rugs" without any concern for style, color, or quality. What followed was an education campaign that would revolutionize how rental dealers approach accessories.
The secret to Daylan's success has been convincing rental operators that their customers desire the same quality and style found in mainstream furniture retailers. By investing just $20-25 more per rug, stores can access products that dramatically improve showroom aesthetics, boost furniture sales, and—crucially for the rental model—withstand multiple rental cycles. These aren't just pretty accessories; they're strategic sales tools that highlight furniture and create cohesive room designs that customers can envision in their homes.
Perhaps most exciting is Daylan's embrace of truly washable rugs, now the most searched rug-related term online. Using special backing technology, these innovative products can be machine-washed or simply hosed down in a driveway with dish soap, making them ideal for the rental market where reconditioning returned items is essential. As Heath demonstrates, a quick clean leaves them looking "brand new" and ready for the next customer.
Looking to elevate your showroom experience and offer customers the quality they deserve? Contact Heath directly at heathperkins@daylan.com to connect with your local sales representative and discover how Daylan's extensive collection of 1,500+ designs can transform your rental business.
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Hello and welcome to the RTO Show podcast. I'm your host, pete Hsiao, and today we are still outside of Meeting of the Minds. This is 2025 in Atlanta, georgia. I'm with Heath Perkins right now from Dalen Rug Company, and listen, you guys have been doing this for a very, very long time. I see it every single show that happens, but the truth is, I don't think everybody knows enough about what you guys have really been bringing to the table, some of the innovations that you've brought up in the last few years, and why it's a great idea to start putting these in your showrooms. So, heath, why don't you give us a little bit about yourself? How did you get started in this?
Speaker 2:And where's Dallon going? Well, yeah, we started with Triob. I want to say 2011, 12, that range. I remember flying to Atlanta and presenting to the committee here and I remember them saying they had like three rug guys at the time and they were like I don't think we really need another rug person, but we were selling buddies. And so they said, okay, we'll take a look at what you're doing. And I flew up here, presented to them and they just loved what we were doing and so some of the key folks on that committee actually calling me within weeks saying we need to get some rugs into the stores and they were excited about it. So that started I don't know, maybe now a 13 year partnership with Trib and you know we've grown every year.
Speaker 2:It's a challenge to get involved in the rent-to-own business and from our standpoint, from our category, we work primarily with you know, from High Point in Las Vegas, work with a lot of furniture folks work with carpet stores, work with area rug galleries across the country. So this was definitely something different for us. It took us a couple of years to get comfortable with it and understand what people were really looking for in the rent-to-own business in terms of their rugs. We didn't have the experience of this is my 23rd year with Dayland, so I've been around a long time doing this. I'd never experienced the concept where a rug got sold and then came back, and then came back and then people go well, what do I do with it? Now I go oh geez, I don't know. I've never thought of that. So yeah, it was a different mindset that we had to get over the first couple of years. But yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:Once we got comfortable, people started to really take on our product. We started working for them. We were one of the top five rug manufacturers in the United States. So you know, when we got to the rent-to-own side, a lot of people had never heard of us. Obviously Just a different type of business. But we're like no, we can handle your needs for you. We just got to understand exactly what you're looking for and it took us a couple of years to kind of identify the price points, the product, what was important in terms of cleanability, returns, how you can maybe clean them and re-rent them out. Oh yeah, they got to be tough.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, they got to be tough and to clean them and re-rent them out. Oh yeah, they got to be tough. They got to be tough and rent to own. You've got to have a product that can sustain the test of time, not only to be delivered, be used, be brought back, be cleaned, be put out again. And that's just part of the things that come with rent to own. But so what are some of the differences that you've seen? Okay, I have a rug into my rug, so that now I know this is going to be worth it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean when we first started with the rent-to-own side and I don't want this to sound bad, but the fashion was not even in the conversation with most rent-to-own folks when it comes to rugs, I mean it just it was just some solid color rugs basic stuff, huh, you know Jim Bob would come by in their van and sell them 10 rugs out of their back of their van.
Speaker 2:And these were 10 rugs that, frankly, were hard to look at typically, and the reason Jim Bob had them in the van is because they nobody else will buy them, and that's what. There's still some rug guys out there that they'll go overseas and they'll just bring a container to the stuff, basically stuff that we don't think sellable in the United States. They'll go get a couple containers, bring it in and then go around try to pitch it to folks. It still happens today, but that was kind of happening in the rent town business, where fashion was not in, was not a part of the equation, really didn't even care. Half the time it was just send me 12 rugs. You're part of the equation, really didn't even care. Half the time it was just send me 12 rugs. And you're like what do you want? Yeah, what are you looking for? I don't know, just 12 rugs, that's what we need. And you're like, oh goodness sakes.
Speaker 2:So we came in trying to tell folks they were used to paying 50 bucks for a rug and not caring what it looked like and then they would throw it in front of the furniture and look like and then they would throw it in front of the furniture and it would you're like well, you just made the furniture and the whole store look terrible and he'd been better off not even to do a rug than what you just brought in.
Speaker 2:You just made the situation much, much harder to try to sell the product. So you know, we started trying to talk about fashion. The same rugs we were bringing to the rent-to-own stores are the same rugs that are in all the mainline furniture stores the Haverty's furniture, the Lazy Boy furniture, the Any Rooms to Go. I mean these mainline furniture guys. We were bringing that same product to the rent-to-own side and saying, hey, you might pay a few dollars more up front, but the rug will wear a lot longer, it's a lot easier to clean, you can re-rent it out, it's more fashion oriented and help your store look a lot better. It'll help your furniture sell a lot better.
Speaker 1:Well listen, there's nothing worse than having somebody come in and you're trying to accessorize something that you've got, things that just don't match, don't look right, and you're telling them I'll make you a great deal, I'll put this in your house. Truman, there's no way you're going to put that in my house.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Because everybody has a different taste. Everybody has a different ebb and flow, in kind of the way they look at things and the way their partner looks at things and the way their household is. With traditional contemporary, however, it is where you want somebody that's real modern and they come in and you have somebody who likes a bare skin rug. They're not exactly the same. It just doesn't add up, Right Right. So you come in and you add these colors, you add these choices. How big was that for rent-to-own to see? Wait a minute, we don't have this solid shag rug, but we have an option to where we have a whole lot of different views and a different color schemes and the way they kind of incorporate with the lamps and the tables and rugs. Was that a huge push that Daylon was able to take advantage of?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, once you started getting some, the first step was to get folks past a price point in their head you know they had for so many years. We pay $50 for rugs and you go, well, okay, we can sell you a $50 rug, but I don't know that that's really what you truly need long term. I mean, yeah, it will feel a very short term need to because you got four or five empty spots, but if you entertain the idea of going to 70 or 80 dollars for rug just for that extra 20 bucks, 25 bucks, you won't believe how much of a better product I can deliver to you. And so it took folks like Buddy's and then we kind of moved into, you know, babers, and the list goes on. Folks going, ok, let me pay that little bit extra up front and let me get much more of a fashion forward product, a product that it's going to make my store look better. And once they did that and they put, they start putting our rugs out there. Then all of a sudden the consumer comes in and goes, whoa, wow, that's a great looking rug. And so it just took off. And so then they were, you know, whoa, wow, that's a great looking rug and so it just took off and so then they were. You know, they bought in at that point and so that's just been the way it's been. Each year it gets a little bit bigger.
Speaker 2:Rugs are the number one accessory category in the furniture industry, have been for probably close to two decades by a landslide. So when it comes to lamps, artwork and greenery, you know rugs triumph all that by a landslide. So when it comes to lamps, artwork and greenery and all that, rugs triumph all that by a huge margin. So you know it's been good to see the RTO folks gravitate towards rugs, appreciate some good looking rugs, and we've kind of tapped into that. And pretty much most of the other rug guys have left, you know, over the years, right, right, and a lot of them have left because they, like you know, dayland's just kind of, you know, come in and really done something different and we have so many great relationships out there.
Speaker 2:We were one of those unique rug companies that we have sales, have a huge sales team across the United States calling on rent, on stores. It's not just we come to the shows and try to sell you something, it's not just we come to the shows and try to sell you something it's. You know, we're following up in your stores. We're visiting your stores, writing orders in your stores, talking to your managers, training. So there's just a lot that comes with Dalen. That's beyond what we do here at the show.
Speaker 1:Well, we're at Meeting of the Minds right now and you've got a lot of the owner operators coming in and these are the guys that buy for their locations, whether it be one, whether it be 40, whether it be a couple hundred. They're buying. Now, let's say that you have their ear for 10 minutes, two minutes. What is going to compel them to put Daylant on the floor? What are some of the product features that you can say these rugs, the $25 or $30 that you were talking about over the plain old, plain Jane, that I'm just going to pull out and throw on the floor for a good two weeks and it's going to wear out, there's going to be no colors left. What would you say to them? That's really going to say, hey, I should do this, and not only does it have the durability, or whatever the case is, it's going to have longevity that you probably wouldn't get at a different price point. So what are some of those things that we can tell these owner operators? Hey, this is why you should select Dayland Rugs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think sometimes there's maybe there's a thought from some folks that well, folks that are shopping rent on maybe they're just okay with this just mediocre looking or below looking quality product on the rug side. And I say, no, it's the same people shopping your stores that are shopping rooms to go. You know they might be in a different situation where they want to rent something and go a different route, but they still. They still see the same fashion on TV when they're watching HGTV. They still want stuff that looks good, this fashion forward, this quality products.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean to me you want your store looking as good as possible, right? You know, it's kind of like going and buying a nice Lexus and then painting it purple with yellow stripes. You're like, why did you just do that? You know you took, you got a beautiful piece of furniture out there and you want to accessorize it. And because that's your main item we understand you're not a rug store your main items to rent this furniture out and these beds and mattresses and appliances, et cetera. You want to highlight those items and the way you highlight it is to get really, really good accessories built around that particular product. So it helps you sell that bigger ticket item over and over and over. So the rugs help facilitate better sales through that process. So, yeah, I just think to me, for the $60, $70, you can just absolutely make a set on your floor stand out and look unbelievable. And so, yeah, you go in any mainline furniture store right now they have rugs all over the floors, you know, because it highlights their furniture.
Speaker 1:Well they are. They are everywhere. I mean listen, the rugs are everywhere. One of the main things that always stands out is there's a big selection in in Dayland rugs. A lot of different colors, a lot of different avenues. Some's got squirrels, some don't. You know some of their. You know you got earth tones and non-earth tones. How many different designs does Daylil sell to the RTO sector?
Speaker 2:Well, we have a very large assortment. It can be challenging because we have to try to reduce it down. We probably have just different designs probably 1,500 designs currently and it's in our assortment. But of course we come to market with 25 rugs, you know. We come to market with 30, 35. And we really try to focus.
Speaker 2:We've been doing this long enough. We know the price points people are looking for. We know they're. They got gray and brown and black. You know sofas everywhere. So we bring rugs that can handle traffic, you know, in the store so they don't get dirty real fast and look dirty. We pick out rugs that can move around the floor and so that's usually when we're targeting, you know, either the show or out in the marketplace. We go into stores, our guys know this is the type of product, these are the type of colors, this is what they're looking for in terms of cleanability, and so we usually go in with a very focused approach of you know, here's 40, 50, 60 rugs to pick from. Of course they can go into our website and our catalog and look at the other 1500, but we certainly know what after all these years, what works.
Speaker 1:So design and durability are probably the main selection points that you say hey, this is why you want this rug here. Not only does it look good, but it performs well under heavy duty traffic and usage. Now, we did say something before you said something to me that I hadn't seen in a while. I've heard it. I really haven't gone through it.
Speaker 2:Washable how does that work? Well, that's a great question. Yeah, washable is. I think right now, if you know, they have the metrics online for when people search keywords. You know when they're searching products and and the number one word that's associated with rugs is washable that people are searching in the United States. So washable rugs is the connection there. So you know, you had the company called Ruggables come out some years ago and they started doing hundreds of millions of dollars and it was quite amazing and it was built all around washable rugs and you know, most classic rug guys were just like what in the world is going on here, yeah and uh, but it it was huge dynamite type of sales and so, consequently, in the coming years, rug guys Dalen was kind of a front runner for this to try to figure out how to, how to make folks see a rug that they're familiar with and go, oh, that looks like a normal rug, feels normal, has the nice hand, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2:But how could I take that rug and potentially put it in a washing machine, right, how could I take that rug and put it on my driveway and hose it off without somehow, you know, messing the rug up? And so it involves a lot of the material itself polyester, polypropylene. You could do that anytime. But the problem was is the backings. They just hold a lot of water. Rugs get very heavy. It could take a week to dry it out. It was a lot of complexities with that. So, yeah, they, daylon and and others, have kind of figured out how to do the backings on these rugs so that they are able to go and wash machines. You know five, eights and below, obviously, for your home wash machine. If you've got an eight by 10, you can take it to a commercial wash machine and wash it Um, or you can just throw it in the driveway.
Speaker 2:We actually have videos that we're adding to our website that shows us cleaning rugs in a driveway and they just hang in them over a rail and they look brand new, feel brand new. You know we have one at Market at the furniture show in High Point we washed it three times in a washing machine and put it beside another one that just came off the loom and tested people. So can you feel a difference? They could not feel a difference. So it's pretty amazing where things have come. And for rent to own this just seems like the one category of folks that would be the most excited about this is rent to own folks. They can kind of go well, we can get it back, it's easy to claim and get all the stains out of it, et cetera, et cetera, and we can rent this baby back out.
Speaker 1:Well, that's super important. Obviously, rent-to-own always wants to have that one owner right. You come in, you either buy it or you rent it. You keep it for the life of the product. No-transcript, that same value.
Speaker 1:And so that's where I think rug always gets that bad rap is. You know, it's not like a shirt, right A shirt, unless it's one of those baseball shirts where you're sliding on it. Well, sure, it doesn't go through that type of wear and tear. But when you're talking about a rug it's like we stand on it, we work on it. We could have you got the kids. They're spilling stuff on, not on purpose, but you know things happen.
Speaker 1:It's a life. It's a life that people have. And so when you're living that regular life and you know you've got pets and they're some elbow grease into it, it's going to be near new. When you're done with her, it's going to look very much like new. So not only are you going to get your product, you're going to get your money out of it as far as resale value. But the customer who's coming in and purchasing that knows they're getting a value out of it because it can be taken care of again and again and again and it'll kind of look of different designs? Is the five foot by eight foot kind of size the most utilized in the rental owned industry?
Speaker 2:It's actually changing. We're getting into eight by tens a lot.
Speaker 1:So eight by ten is a new kid on the block. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that's changed dramatically in the last 18 months, really Doing a ton of five by eights, now we're into eight-by-tens, doing a lot of eight-by-tens. So not everybody's on board with that, but we're certainly moving that direction.
Speaker 1:Is that because sofas are getting bigger? Is that because they've widened up? Maybe they have the larger rails on the side and they're still using that for the living room, or are they using it more for these show pieces where you have a large dining room or a large area where you're trying to cover it up? What have you seen as the reason that we're shifting to getting bigger rugs?
Speaker 2:Yeah, houses are getting bigger, Spaces are opening up, getting larger, you know, just, the whole layout of homes is changing. So consequently you're getting situations where people just need a larger rug. You know, 5'8 starts to look really small. So yeah, Rentone has trouble in some stores because the location, the size, the space, they can't put a lot of 8x10s in. But fundamentally in the marketplace 8x10s are where it's happening.
Speaker 1:That's where it's going to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's. 60% of our business is 8x10s.
Speaker 1:Well, listen to that guys, the dealers. I want to get you guys to understand that these operators need to know If you're starting to move in that direction. You might want to get on that and give he the call and say, hey, let's try these out and see how they work. Now having to wash them commercially right? Let's say, want to keep it simple and we take it home when we do it in a driveway. Let's say that we're talking about a driveway as opposed to doing some kind of commercial cleaning. How is that done? Is it a brush? Is it just taking water to it? What kind of cleaners can you use on that? I mean, what makes it so easy that I can take care of it? And before I know it, it looks like a brand new rug again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you just simply water it down. Water down, use a little bit of soap, and then you just simply brush it. You can do a light brush on it, then you can just hose it back off and gets all the soap out of it. That's the trick is to get all the soap out of it. But yeah, it's a. It's a actually very simple process. I did one the other day in my own driveway, where you know my own house. So we just, you know, take a little Dawn dish soap spray on it and put a little water on it. I sprinkle some Dawn dish soap and literally just take a little brush, handheld brush, and kind of push it along and into the fiber gently, then just spray it off, and then I, you know, we hung it over a little ladder that I had there and by the end of the day it was dry and put it back in the house. It's brand new. That's. That's how quickly it's. Uh, you know they, they can be cleaned up and reused.
Speaker 1:Well, you guys got to understand. Heath himself is saying stick it in the driveway, spray it down, use some Dawn soap and you can have a brand new rug by it's all done. It's magic, magic, magic. Listen, I want you guys to know we appreciate that you stopped by. I know that you guys got a lot going on in Meeting of the Minds. There's a lot of things going on in there, a lot of operators who want to get their hands on these new rugs that you've got. I know that you always got some good deals going on, so we appreciate you taking out the time to come out here and listen. If somebody wants to take advantage of your services, they say you know what? I need a better vendor for rugs. I need to know all these new designs and I need to know what's coming up next, like washability or the fact that we have these new sizes that are becoming more of marketplace. Sure, how are they going to get a hold of you?
Speaker 2:Well, they can obviously reach out to me directly and I can hook them up with their local salesperson. We have roughly 25 salespeople and they cover all the states, but heathperkins at dalencom is the quickest way to get a quick answer on a question and then I'll take it from there. I'll get them hooked up with their local rep. Their local rep will contact them, set up a time to introduce the new products to them, explain what we're doing that's different than everybody else and get them signed up. So you know we do it. We're working with a lot of Trib members for rugs and we consider ourselves kind of the RUGS source for Trib members.
Speaker 1:So listen guys, if you guys don't know who the Trib is, the Trib is the rental dealer. It's an industry buying group and they are the ones that come together for rent, to own and help really put all of these vendors together. For us, as owners, operators and people who are on the front line selling to our customers, they have the ability to kind of get everybody together and say, hey, these are the kind of relationships that we need. You help me sell these rugs and I'll help you make some money. What we can do is just get all these out there with so many designs, so many size choices and the ability to get it washed. You've got Heath here to say that, hey, hit me up, I not only can set you up, but I can take care of you if there's anything that you need. I really appreciate your time, heath.
Speaker 1:I'm glad that you were able to come out here and talk to us a little bit about it, because I'm going to be honest with you, rugs is something that we don't think about, but it might be something that we need going into 2025. Get a little bit more of Accessorize, a little bit more. There are so many things that come out new all the time. Let's make it look good, absolutely, and that's how we. If you have anything that you want to know about the rug company Dillon Rugs, or Dillon Rugs excuse me, and you just haven't kind of caught it in the conversation feel free to hit him up, or you can hit me up at the show it's Pete at the RTOShowPodcastcom. You can hit me up on Facebook, on Instagram, on LinkedIn and now we have YouTube. So make sure that you subscribe and I will tell you. Guys, as always, I appreciate it, heath.
