From Cleats to Clipboards: Building Effective Leaders in Rent-to-Own

When high-performing employees become leaders without proper training, everyone suffers – the promoted employee, their team, and ultimately the customer experience. Will Jackson, Team Development Director at RNR Tire Express, knows this reality firsthand, having made the painful transition from what he describes as a "toxic" leader to someone dedicated to helping others avoid the same pitfalls.

In this candid conversation, Will reveals how his personal leadership failures became the foundation for RNR's innovative "Cleats to Clipboards" leadership development program. The metaphor perfectly captures the essential mindset shift required when moving from star player to effective coach – learning that your job is no longer to do the work yourself but to guide and develop others who do the work.

What sets RNR's approach apart is their proactive identification of leadership potential. Rather than waiting until positions need filling, they identify and train promising team members before they're thrust into management roles. This creates a leadership bench ready to step up when opportunities arise, dramatically reducing the turmoil of leadership transitions and improving business outcomes.

Will shares powerful insights about feedback (the "F-word" in leadership), the danger of echo chambers, and why authenticity trumps perfection. He openly discusses his continuing leadership journey with refreshing honesty that makes leadership principles accessible to everyone. Whether you're a seasoned RTO veteran or new to leadership, Will's story demonstrates how intentional leadership development creates stronger teams, better customer experiences, and sustainable business growth.

Ready to transform your approach to leadership development? This episode offers practical strategies for identifying, training, and supporting the next generation of leaders in your organization. The leadership principles shared apply across all roles in rent-to-own, not just management positions.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Meeting Will Jackson at FRDA
• 4:07 Will's Journey at R&R Tire Express
• 11:36 Leadership Development Philosophy
• 20:22 From Toxic Leader to Team Developer
• 30:45 Cleats to Clipboards: Teaching Leadership
• 39:34 The Importance of Authentic Feedback
• 50:52 Finding Your Voice as a Speaker
• 1:02:03 Information Brokers and Learning Leadership
• 1:06:49 Rapid Fire Leadership Lessons

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 1:13

Hello, welcome to the RTO show. I'm your host, Pete Chao, and today we've got my man Will Jackson. Listen, if you listen, you guys don't know. I I saw Will for the first time at FRDA this year, and like I was starstruck a little bit. I was starstruck a little bit. So we were like that, and I was like, man, this guy gets it. But you know what the thing is too, is that it wasn't just about getting it, it was about the presentation. Oh, like, like we need, and I'm listening for all you guys out there, I'm not saying anything bad about who we already have, but sometimes it just comes across a little dead, a little flat. And the message is there. It's definitely there. But the question is, are they getting out of it what I want them to get out of it? Right. Do they see the the message that I'm pushing? And I'm like, freaking Will Jackson gets it, man. He's talking to rent-to-owned people. And it's exactly what I saw. I was like, listen, um, I gotta write this down. Okay, I gotta write that down. And I was like, you know what? The heck with that. I gotta talk to this guy.

SPEAKER_01: 2:17

Man, thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 2:17

That that that's it. The highest compliment you can give me, man. Thank you. It was awesome. So we met at the FRDA show, and Will does not do traditional rent own. He does the wheel and tire. Right. The wheel and tire franchise. One of the best RR. Well, we'll let you get into that. But you know, one of the best that's out there. And listen, I can tell you right now, they are doing things that are not being done right now. They are new. And I there's nothing I love more than watching rent to own with a 40-year-old idea come new again. I just, I love it. I love it. So the team development director. That is me. That is you at R and R Tire and Express. So you were, you've been there for five years, but you started this role a couple years ago?

SPEAKER_01: 2:58

I did. So uh the story goes, I started uh with R Tire Express as a training and development specialist. And my job was to travel store to store and help out where I could in training our team, whether it be with things they need to learn about rent to own, things they need to learn about automotive. Uh the thing was, I'll be honest with you, it was a challenge for me because I came into this industry. I had never worked in rent to own, and I had never worked in automotive either. Uh so it was uh it was interesting to go store to store, and they're like, hey, how do you? And I'm going, I don't know. I really don't know. Uh so there was uh I I did the job for a while and I just realized I'm like, hey, like this is really not my speed. And so I took a break from R for about two years, maybe maybe a year or so, and went and did something else. And then uh Adam Sutton and Matt Warren approached me and said, Hey, we we know the role that you were in initially didn't really work out. We have this new role for you. Um, would you be interested in coming back and really uh transitioning from a training development specialist to team development director and focusing on really the leadership principles of what we're trying to teach? Because, like you said, uh Arnards, we're trying to do things different, right? We're saying, hey, there's rent to own, there's a long history and a foundation of rent to own there. Uh and we're gonna take some things from you know leadership and development and invest into our people. Uh I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself, but what we say in the so my position, I am overseeing the training development department. So I still oversee training. Um, and we say that our goal is to educate, guide, and inspire. So educate, we want to give you foundational knowledge of how to do the job. And we have great people on the team from we have Ed Lund and Aaron Kidd. They're just really great with the foundational knowledge of what we do. Of course, we have help from people like Ryan Schrader. I know a lot of people in our industry know Ryan just from going to different uh shows and things, and they're incredible at that. Uh, then we have guides, so we say, hey, if you're ever in need of help, we're always a phone call away. But then Inspire is the part that I get to focus on, which is really fun, which is we believe we want to leave you better than we found you, right? We want to, we want your life to be fantastic inside the walls of R R Tire Express and outside the walls. And so we spend a lot of time focusing on that stuff too, which has been really fun for me.

SPEAKER_00: 5:09

Yeah, so it I love the way you describe it because I, you know, talking about it beforehand and talking about it now, it is the most fundamental thing to want to do what you're doing. You know, listen, I get it. People are out there. I gotta pay bills, you know, they're racking up, I got a car payment, I got a house payment, I got to take my wife, my kids. But to have a job is different than having a career. Right. And that is huge. Yeah. One of those things that I've noticed is like when I walk through, and of course, this was when I was taking, you know, I go to an interview Adam Sudden, and I get in there and I'm like, wow, I didn't expect this. I really did. I walk in and there's offices everywhere, and it's it's very new, it's very happening. And I was like, wow, this is awesome. So I go into the office and he's telling me about this stuff, and we start talking and walking around, and man, I'm seeing the gym and the way the bathroom setup, and I'm seeing the you know, the studio in the back, and I'm like, these guys are getting it. And you know, it's what's funny is because Adam, we're back there talking and he's like, I got I gotta show you this. So we go into the training room and he's like, Yeah, I'm thinking about knocking that wall down because we got to make it bigger. And I'm like, dude, this is bigger than almost like 90% of the places I know of. And he's like, Yes, I'm big enough. We have to we have to make this work. And so that passion comes through. You know, when you're talking about a passion project, it comes through because you're like, hey, this is good, not good enough. Right. This is not where we want to be. We want to be somewhere else. We want to be, I don't want to be on the curve, period. I want to be on the head of the curve, I want to be on the tip of the spear, I want to be in front of the arrow. Yes, period. And so that coupled with FRDA come, you know, come the the idea was cleats to clipboards. Yes. And so man, I I I was I was in in awe, number one, because dude, you have this voice. You have this. I'm glad I'm recording this now because it is a voice. You have the right voice to make this, that's for sure. But so coming through, and the ideal concept was your direction on leadership. And and guys, we make this problem all the time. And I will say this, we we do this all the time. We get our best workers who do an absolutely great job, right, and we put them in a position where we think, well, just show everybody else. Yeah. And man, that's not their strong point. Yeah, they they are keyed into doing what they do, and it's okay to put them in that position, but we got to give them leadership skills. Right. And, you know, we're so quick to say, this is how you call. Let me let me sit down with you, let's do a last man standing, let me teach you on sales, let me teach you about how they walk in the door, let me teach you about this product. Okay, you got that? Sure, go teach everybody else. Right. But leadership is it, it's its own deal. And the way you put that was so like awesome. I mean, tell us a little bit about first off, the I love the name, but where does the idea come from? Where did where do we say, okay, there's a disconnect here, we've got to fix this.

SPEAKER_01: 8:00

Yeah, for sure. So uh great question. And and we were we had an MIT program. So we were bringing in it, started small, like most things, right? Started small. We had an MIT program where we were bringing people in and we were we would have someone quit in a store. Hey, our manager quit, they left, they went somewhere else, they had a better opportunity, whatever it is. And then now we have to replace them. But we don't have a bench. So what do we do? We look to the nearest best salesperson or best account manager and go, hey, we're gonna have you come in and do, you know, the manager job. And we'd bring them into home office. And when I came back for this position, I was put, my responsibility was, hey, we need to make sure they're they're equipped to be the manager. Well, what that looked like was they'd come in and uh, hey, okay, you're gonna spend an hour with HR, you're gonna spend an hour with this person, you're gonna spend an hour with ordering, you're gonna spend an hour with this, and they would lead with a lot of technical skills, but they would get in the role and they wouldn't succeed. And we go, well, what's the problem? You know, and then I'm hearing, you know, uh Larry and Adam and Matt King and others go, Matt King, he's our VP of corporate operations, and they're going, hey, we just don't have a bench. And so we had this idea to say, okay, well, what if we treat an MIT program differently? Instead of going, hey, we need a manager, so now you're in the MIT program, go, hey, let's identify these people ahead of time and go, hey, well, we know that let's say CJ is a fantastic salesperson. Well, let's get CJ ready to be a leader before he has to be a leader, before we just drop them in and say, hey, you should lead. So we said, hey, CJ, we need you to take two days to come over to home office, and we're gonna teach you not how to do payroll, not how to have better product knowledge, not how to lock up at night. We're gonna teach you how to lead people. Uh listening to the show, I know you and I are both big fans of Simon Sinek. Oh, okay. I love Simon Sinek. I love it. And he has this quote where he says, Hey, you know, leadership is like a muscle, right? You have to work it out. And if you don't work it out, it gets weaker. And if you do work it out, it gets stronger. And so we can't just take someone and throw them into a position and go, hey, lead people. It's a skill, just like anything else we teach. And so um to just be transparent with you, it came from my own personal story of, man, I had a moment in my life where I was at a job and I was working and things were successful, and as far as what I was doing was successful. But um, I left that job and I and I went somewhere else, and and my buddy took my position and he called me and he said, Hey, uh, man, you like I heard you're looking to leave this job you're at. Would you be interested in coming back and working with me and we can get together and do some awesome stuff? And I said, That sounds great. He goes, Okay, well, let me have some conversations. And he had conversations with these people that I'd worked with for 10 plus years, and he called me, he said, Hey, we have a problem. And I said, What's the problem? He said, Um, they don't want you back. And I said, Oh, okay, well, what's up? And he said, you know, the quote they gave is a hey, we'd love to have his talent, but we don't want him. Uh, he's toxic, he is uh full of ego, he can't take feedback, just a list of things. And, you know, I had a decision to make in that moment uh because things weren't going great at my current job either. And and they were telling me some of these things, and I was like, oh, well, that's just them, they don't know how to manage me. And and I had a moment where I had to go, okay, um, I can either walk away from this and and go to another job somewhere else and have the same issues and have the same problems, or I can stop and look at myself and go, yeah, the problem is probably me, right? It's probably me. And uh, and so I did, and and it wasn't it wasn't fun at first, right? Uh, but I called all those people and I said, Hey, and I need you to give it to me straight because we have to seek out feedback from other people. They're not usually just going to give it to us freely. And we can get into all that later, but yeah, what all this teaching literally comes from me going, this is what I needed and still need all the time. When you hear me talking kleats of clipboard, I'm talking to me, right? When you hear me talking about feedback, I'm talking to me, right? Still, because we're all working to be better all the time. And so, yeah, to get back to the question, we brought those people in, we said, hey, we'll we'll teach you how to lead. And we started doing it one or two at a time, and we started seeing success. When those people got promoted, all of a sudden, yeah, we still taught them when they got promoted how to do payroll and all that kind of stuff. But all of a sudden, they have a different mindset. And we had Jeremy Frazier, he's one of our managers in uh up north in in uh Indiana. Forgive me if I get that wrong. I think it's Indiana. Um, and he had a complete turnaround. And when he was asked uh by Larry, like, hey, what happened? He goes, leadership training. It was just leadership training that that shifted my mindset. And so many times I think we get into a place like, oh, that's just hokey stuff, or it doesn't matter, or it feels good, but we were able to actually correlate it back to uh gains, right? Like we saw an increase in COR, we saw an increase in revenue, and we're like, hey, what happened? And his answer is like, well, I just started treating people different in the store. And and and you know, not just team members, but customers. So that's where it started, and then it just grew from there.

SPEAKER_00: 12:54

Well, I mean the thought of listen, there's task driven and there's skill driven. And task is hey, do your, you know, get all if if you want to do something and you get task driven, it's a simple project. It doesn't mean that it doesn't have to be taught, but like you need inventory, get your inventory done. You need tags done, get your tags done. You need your time cards done, do the time cards. It doesn't require skill. It requires, did I check this guy off? Did he really take a lunch? Did I did I clock it in the right way? That's not really a skill. But when you're talking about management, when you're talking about putting somebody in a position over other people, and you the hardest thing I've ever noticed is when you tell them, listen, if you do start doing this yourself as you have been for the last two, three years, you're probably gonna fail. Right. You have to learn to do what you did through that guy, that gal, that person, and that newbie over there. Right. And all of a sudden, it's like I have to be hands-off to do the wondrous things I've done with these hands. Right. And showing somebody, you know, the ability to be able to teach, the ability to be able to say, listen, and this is the hardest part. And I I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You are not really that successful until you found somebody, you've taught them, and then they've been able to teach somebody else. Right. Because great, you teach them, great, now they're good. But it's like one of those things uh, you know, you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Yeah, teach a man how to fish, he will feed him for a lifetime. Man, absolutely. So so I love, I love the the idea of this, is it it just pulls me in. But I have a question. Please. Okay, so you're this guy, right? We're gonna say former will, right? Okay, go former will. Uh huh. Okay, yeah. So former will hits this wall and goes, you know what? As as as hopefully some of us we all do, we when we go, uh it's it's time to really like make a change, right? For the for the for the better, whatever the case is, whether I gotta move, whether I got a better job, whether I just internally look and say, I could do better. Now that will turns into the director, right? And and getting these people built up. What strategies strategies did you use from that implementation point to where you are now to say, I'm better at teaching leadership, I'm better at coaching from being the guy who probably needed to hear it the most to the guy who's raw, rawing other people.

SPEAKER_01: 15:08

Yeah. Again, excellent question. I think what so what it was was for me, um, when I found so I there are a few resources that I found immediately, right? Michael Hyatt and Company, uh, they are based out of Franklin, Tennessee. He had a podcast called Lead to Win. I think it's changed now to uh the double win, maybe, but still a great podcast. Check it out, it's it's awesome. Um and he's right, he wrote a bunch of books, and I and I dove in there first, and then from there it was to Simon Sinek and then to, you know, all these other books. I just listened to podcasts and read as much as I get my hands on. When I when I realized what I had been doing to people, right? Because I think all of us, you know, internally, we we we want to build value into people, right? We we know what's right, we know what's not right. But I was just having this conversation with Matt Warren just a couple of days ago. We were he was asking me, he goes, Hey, the we were talking about my story. He goes, Do you think that's nature or nurture? Like, do you think that's just in you, or can you teach that to someone? And I say, You definitely can teach it to someone. Um, because I had to learn. But what I had to do was after reading all these books and seeing all these things, I had to go, okay, I can no longer trust my own intuition because the choices that I've been making have been hurting people. So when I when someone says something and I'm getting I get mad inside, I have to stop and go, well, hang on. Let me just let me just think this through because this emotion that I'm feeling, what I'm doing, that's been hurting people. So let me let me think through it again and go, okay, no, they probably didn't mean that personally against me. You just have to stop trusting your own intuition and and make those changes inside. So when that happened to me, I said, okay, there's got to be other people out there uh going through this same thing. Um I did listen to your podcast with Adam. He was telling you a little bit of the story about how we got connected. How I wound up landing uh this job with them is we were having a conversation. So if you missed that episode, you should go back and listen to all the episodes.

SPEAKER_00: 16:54

You should always listen to all the episodes.

SPEAKER_01: 16:56

Because they're great. You should go back and listen to all these shows. Um, but he was telling the story about I used to do commercials for them, and I still do commercials for them and do things like that. But we were coming back from one of our first commercial shoots, and um, the videographer who was shooting our commercial was on the plane with us, and I'm telling Adam this story that I've been going through of like, oh yeah, but did I well, that videographer worked with me at the last job, and he was, I mean, just by pure happenstance, we got put together and he's on the plane. I'm like, yeah, and you know, I said, I've I've been able to forgive myself and you know, really move on. And he said, on the plane, it's my friend Brian, we're very close now. He looked at me and said, Well, I've not forgiven you. And just straight up like that. And and I said, Hey, thanks for sharing. And so we start talking and we start working through our issues on the plane. Uh, and so, but but from there, Adam's like, Hey, tell me more about you know this. And I was like, Well, here's my passion, and I feel like if I can keep others from having to go through what I went through, like and that's where he said, Hey, would you like to come on and do some of this uh for our team? And so I know I'm going see, Pete, here's a question. I talk too much, right? Here's so you just anytime just look at me and be like, hey man, give me a point.

SPEAKER_00: 18:02

Listen, sometimes you know, I love to stick on subject when it matters. But the truth is the journey is always more important than where you've gotten to. Yeah. And some I want people to hear that. It's not just the rector of coming in and telling me, this is how you be a great leader. Oh, you just do this and you do this. But it matters to people when they're listening and they go, Yeah, I do know that guy. It was a pain in my butt. Yeah. And now he happened to be somebody somewhere that's doing something better for himself, better for the company. Yeah. How do I get there? Absolutely. Absolutely. And so, yeah, listen, that matters. Those things matter to be able to be able to look back and go retrospectively, I I probably screwed the pooch on that.

SPEAKER_01: 18:43

Yeah. Well, let me say this and nothing, nothing against my former employer. They were awesome. I still love them. We're we're very close to this day. I mean, I mean, like I, you know, most of my best friends still work there. Um, but they didn't do me any favors by not giving me the direct feedback that I needed to change. And I think so many times we hold back feedback as, oh, this is gonna be awkward or all whatever. It it took them giving me feedback after I left. If they felt that way, right, before I left, I wish they would have told me when I was there, right? To go, hey, you're toxic, you're this. And maybe they did, and I just wasn't listening. I was in a place that I couldn't hear it. Um, but but the passion to do this job came from I didn't want anybody to have to go through what I had to go through if they were going through it, believing that, hey, you know, you may have a team member out there right now that you're going, oh man, they're so talented, but I just can't stand being around them, or oh man, they have so much potential. Well, I would look at you and go, man, you have the greatest opportunity to turn that person into their full potential, right? But it's it's difficult. It's giving them real feedback, it's working with them, it's coming in every day and focusing on them, not me, right? Um, and you know, I heard I was listening to a book recently and they said, you know, a great leader doesn't create followers, a great leader creates other leaders. Um, and so that was where my passion came from. I said, hey, you know, if we can take these people and if we can help them open their eyes, if I can continue to open my own eyes through research and teaching. And so, yeah, we cover a lot of that uh in the training, which I'm sure we'll get to a little bit later. But yeah, that was it, man. It was it and I'm and I I would love to say that I don't struggle with some of that stuff that I used to. I still do. I I literally this week, right? Literally this week that I'm thinking about things that I went through. Um, but if I can, if I can help anyone else along in their journey, uh that that's what it's all about for me.

SPEAKER_00: 21:55

Well, I I want people to understand that, you know, when you see people on stage, when you see people talking to you, when you see somebody at the FRDA show and they've got a great clipboard set and they've got they're talking and the slides are happening. Guys, nobody's perfect. No, not at all. And and so they're up there, usually, and I'm gonna say this usually because I don't cover everybody, but because something has happened, circumstance in their life that they've said, you know what? I can I can teach somebody not to make this mistake or how to mitigate the issues from the mistake that was made. I want you to learn this, I want you to learn that. But the idea is, guys, if you ever really understand, the idea is I'm gonna give you a bunch of knowledge and I hope that some of it sticks. Yeah. I hope that you take one, two, three, four, five little things out of this and change your day. Right. Because I can say, if you if anybody knows, you read a book, I couldn't tell you what chapter what was chapter one. I have no idea. What was chapter seven? I have no idea. But you know what I took out of it? There were these five things that I needed to get better at. Yeah. And those things stuck with me. And it's great not only to have that idea where listen, I might not come away from this a change perfect person, but if I can hold on to that one golden nugget where somebody says to me, I haven't forgiven you yet. Yeah. And you go, damn, everything else needs to stop right now. What are we talking about? Because you don't know. And I love the idea. We're gonna talk. If you guys don't know, so RTO World 2025, we're in Omaha, and the first thing I see is the F-word. Now, listen, if you guys know the show, we don't say it here, but we say a lot at home, and we're like, oh my God, let me let me hold off on that. I won't, I wanted to find out. So I love, I love the way it pulls you in. I love the idea because sitting in there really made me go, you know what? I think that's a facet that I have not done right. And I I and it it didn't get to me at a point like, gosh darn it. But I was like, you know what? Out of all the things that I've done, out of all the times that I've sat people down, I've sat with salespeople, drivers, collectors, GMs, I've sat with other RMs, and you know what? Out of, let's say it was a hundred, let's say it's 150, I couldn't, I don't really remember one where somebody said, Hey, why don't you tell me what you think? Why don't you find out what they think? It's more like you're not doing this right. Let me show you how. Right. I didn't even talk to them yet. Yeah I don't even know where I don't even know where the deficiency is yet to correct it. I'm just going, you know what? I'm gonna correct it because that's what I do. Us leaders, we go in, we fix things, and we you're not right, and I'm gonna tweak you. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wow. But, anyways, let's get back to Cleats and Clipboard. Yeah, sorry, Cleats Clipboard. So FRDA happens. This comes out. Where so your subject matter and where do you get it from? What made you decide to go, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna write something down for this. And was this something that you put together for FRDA, or was this something that RR had that you said, you know what, I want to share this with FRDA?

SPEAKER_01: 24:50

Yeah, I've got to give credit to Tracy Centron. She uh came to me and and Tracy, uh, we work together every day. And our relationship is usually Tracy tells me what I'm gonna do and then I do it. Uh and so she walked into my office. She walked into my office and she was like, Hey, there's FRDA. I told them that you could speak and you're gonna speak. And I said, Oh, okay. Uh, but Cleats of Clipboard, we had written for, um, excuse me, Cleats of Clipboard, we had written for the leadership training. Um, and it was really the first one. And and of course there's nothing new under the sun, right? All of this information is pulled from books. I uh there's a gentleman uh that we work with a lot named Joe Peachy, and I asked him, we were talking one time, I said, Hey, we're talking about a speaking business and stuff. I was like, how do you, you know, everyone's heard this stuff already, and nothing's really your original idea because you're just pulling from different things. And he's like, Hey, you're an information broker. You read the book and they didn't, right? And so you're here to translate.

SPEAKER_00: 25:40

That's a great idea, right?

SPEAKER_01: 25:41

That's a great way to put it. Shout out to Joe. I was like, Joe, this is genius. Uh, but I'm like, hey, he's like, hey, you read the book, they didn't. You're translating to them so they don't have to read the book. So really Cleats the Clipboard was a bunch of things put together that just were that's just to say, hey, if you're a high performer and you've been promoted to leadership, which you've if you've ever been promoted to leadership, 99% chance you are a high performer, and now you're in the role and you just keep wanting to doing the same things that got you there, but you can't because it's a new job. And Simon Sinek, you're no longer responsible for the job. You're responsible for the people who are responsible for the job. And it really is trying to uh teach a group of high performers, hey, I know you want to lace up the cleats. There's people out there right now, they watch college football every single weekend, just started back right right last weekend, right? And they're like, oh man, when I was out there, I used to could No, you can't. No, you can't, right? You were great in your day and you did awesome. But the job of a coach is not to be like, let me lace up the cleats and get out there and show you boys how to do it. It's saying, hey, I'm gonna hold the clipboard and I'm gonna call the plays and I'm gonna get you to be the best version of you that you can ever be, right? It's my job to to guide you, you know, create boundaries, uh, you know, give you wisdom, give you experience from what I've come from to go, hey, I'm now gonna make you the best you can possibly be. Um sounds like a Phil Jackson story. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 26:58

Right. Like the guy plays, he's he's all right. And then he goes on to lead some of the best elite players in the entire NBA to like success after success after success. It's not a one time, it's not a two time, it's not a three time. We're talking about Pete's one Pete, two Pete's, and then I think uh Lakers, I don't know if they had a three-pete or that they back to back, but it was it's unbelievable to be able to do that. Yeah, that's that's an amazing thing. I'm gonna tell you right now, though, just so you're aware. Now on my resume, it's gonna say information broker.

SPEAKER_01: 27:30

That's it. That's it. You were now information broker.

SPEAKER_00: 27:33

Adding that line. What was the podcast? I was an information broker. Exactly. I love that idea. I love the way that sounds. So we're going through the halls of RTO world. And I you listen, I had a lot of things going on. Uh I so I worked some stuff with A Bro and I had some of the Legends series going on. I was going back and forth, and man, I like I'm literally going on the paper and I'm like, the F word. How do I not go to that? How do I not show up for that? And man, did that open my eyes? So I we we're definitely gonna come back to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I got pages. I got pages to talk about.

SPEAKER_01: 28:09

Well, I got time, so let's do it.

SPEAKER_00: 28:10

So when you're when you're when you're doing this this directional thing where you're you're starting to create leaders even before the process happens. Let's say, like you said, you you have somebody, you get them ready before they're even there, and now you're now when they're there, they're not going theory in the headlights like, oh my God, I didn't know this was going on. Right. How did you select those people?

SPEAKER_01: 28:32

Oh, so what's interesting is I um when we first started this, they were selected by their leadership, right? So we said, hey, this is a service that we can provide. So um, you know, we're a franchisor, of course, and we've got franchises across the country. Um, but for our corporate stores, we have corporate store leadership in um Matt uh King and Kyle Parman. And they select the people said, Hey, these are the people that we have identified as as potential leaders. They would bring them to us. And then, yeah, we we followed up every now and then, you know, there's a couple students that we talk to still, they're they're in their managerial roles now and they're doing a great job. And uh yeah, and and listen, what the the other thing we realized, we brought people in, we put them through the program, and guess what? Like management's not for everybody, right? Like, that's the hardest thing, too, is to bring someone in and go, hey, they may be a great salesperson and they may be doing all this, but I'm just telling you right now, we've been through the content and they don't get it, right? You can put them in there, but at your own peril because they're they're just gonna they're gonna do what they've always been doing. And that's not to say that that over time we couldn't get them there, but when we would take them through the course, we would just go, yeah, I I don't, I don't think this person really gets it.

SPEAKER_00: 29:39

Well, you you gotta you gotta remember there's always the other side of the seesaw. Yeah, absolutely. Things are not always great. Sometimes you're like, hey man, I've got this person. I think they can make it. They are they are just one type of person that I think is gonna make it. And then afterwards you realize either they're not ready yet, right, or they don't want to be in the position that you want to put them in.

SPEAKER_01: 29:58

Pete, I couldn't have said literally with with management, leadership, anything. People have certain seats on the bus that they that they belong in, and then they don't. And that's not to say that, oh, you're not a manager, so you're less of a person. Not at all, right? It's just your skill set and your ability. There are some people that we do a disservice to by going, you're the best salesperson, so now you're gonna lead people. Maybe they just wanted to continue to be the best salesperson, right? Maybe they wanted, if they made the jump to leadership because of money, it's like, oh man, that's that's not the right move. That's not a good motivator. That's not a great motivator, right? Maybe let's increase their commissions and just have them continue to sell and be the best salesperson they can be because they will be happier because every day in organizations across the country, we put people in positions that we think they want or we think they'd be good at, and they're going to work every day miserable because they're like, I just, I just really want to sell tires, right? I didn't really want to manage people, but I got put here and I felt like it was the right thing to say and do, and it furthers my career. And yeah, it's just being honest with yourself and going, hey, maybe that's not the right person for this role, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00: 31:01

Well, sometimes I think what we need to do is tell people it's okay to not want that. Yeah. Whether it be not right now, but you want it in the future, or you don't want it at all. It's okay. And you know what? It's okay to tell me that too. Yes. Because what I don't want to do is in my mind, I'm gonna put you through how many ever days, how many ever weeks, how many ever months, I'm gonna get you ready. And then I in my mind, I'm gonna think I got somebody who's on a bench ready to go, right? And you're dreading every moment, and then come the moment you fumble. And not because it's lack of training, not because it's like something that you can't do. It's just something that doesn't resonate with what you are inside. And it's like, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01: 31:41

I mean, think about this. Think about I'm sure there's if you're listening to this right now, you may have done this, and if you've done it, you you've joined a league of people across the nation and the world that have done this. You had a person, they were fantastic at the job they did. You promoted them into leadership, they suffered and couldn't do it. We let them go. Right. And and you've taken someone who was thriving and flourishing, put them in a role that they did not flourish in, and we let them go. And we go, oh man, they really fell off. Or we didn't listen to them, ask them questions, treat them like people, like we were talking about earlier. Hey, listen, I didn't even ask them questions. We didn't go, hey, do you like this? And you can be honest with me, and I'll give you your sales job back, right? And we'll find someone else to do it. And that's no shame on go back and keep killing it, right? Go back and kill it. Go back and do what you do so well. But we put people in positions and we go, no, this is for you. And they're telling you, hey, I don't think this is for me, but we just keep pushing them, pushing them, pushing them till we go, oh man, they really let us down and we had to let them go. Did they? Or did we let them down, right? By not listening to them and putting them in the place that they're going to be able to do.

SPEAKER_00: 32:39

That internal retrospect is hard.

SPEAKER_01: 32:40

It's hard.

SPEAKER_00: 32:41

And listen, and and and most of the times what what a lot of people don't understand is I've always said if you're going to invest, the first investment you need to make is in yourself. The first investment that you need to understand is yourself. You got to walk into the mirror and go, whether it's what I can see internally or whether somebody can come and help me or whether there's a group of people that can come and tell me. I hate that I hate to say that there might be a group of people that can go, look, this is really what you need. But the truth is you don't learn what you need or where you need to grow just by yourself. Can you try? You could try, but I don't think it's going to matter as much from hearing other people and going, this is this is where your burn points are, this is where your hard parts are. And then investing in the I've got to learn to read. I've got to learn to retrospect. I've got to learn to listen and the probably and I don't want to say any one is more important than the other one. I've got to learn to implement all these darn things that I've been listening to and hearing and people have been telling me I need to do and actually do it. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 33:41

And and you can and if you're sitting here listening going well I don't enjoy podcasts or I don't enjoy reading I didn't do any of that stuff. It literally was one random person who saw me struggling. I didn't want to listen to them. I'm like I'm fine right but they were like hey I think you need to listen to this podcast and I just begrudgingly listen to it. And then I said oh okay that's not so bad. And listen to another and listen to another one I wasn't a reader. I I would buy all these books and I looked impressive because you come in my house and there's all these books but I wasn't reading them right and then I'm like well let me just read one. Oh let me read another let me read another like you will get there even if it's a a small step at a time you will learn to go oh you you will see the change that is happening in your life people will call it out on you and go, hey, there's something different about you. It's like when we lose weight right and and you're sitting across the table something goes hey man have you lost some weight and you just feel so good. You're like oh I mean and even if you're not trying to you're like I guess the shirt fits me great today right well you know you're in the mirror every day going I I I didn't lose it.

SPEAKER_00: 34:34

It was a pound last week and a pound before but then when somebody says it you're like yes oh my God it's working it's working. I don't want that cake.

SPEAKER_01: 34:40

That's that same thing will happen with leadership if you will just take the time right to sit and learn it. Yeah. I mean it it again I I I only know it because it happened to me and it still happens to me all the time. I'm still working on myself every single day.

SPEAKER_00: 34:53

Well you know I gotta say well it it's very comforting to have somebody be able to articulate their points the way you do uh it's very comforting to have somebody speak the way you do and I've I've I've I've heard it twice so I'm I'm I'm I like it but I got to say you know one of the biggest fears that humans have is standing in front of other human beings and literally be the only one speaking because judgment is real. Right. How did you get there? How did you be able to overcome and I'm not saying maybe you didn't have to overcome it but I know I know I did but like to be able to get to that point to say not only am I going to teach you something that matters to me, I'm going to teach you clipboard, I'm going to teach you the F-word, I'm going to do it in a very good way where I'm not fumbling on the mic and I'm not like uh uh uh every five I gotta hate that not and not not that the person doing it is terrible but it's like it does take away from the thought process yeah and it kind of does stop people in their thought process oh okay I'm I'm following you but you keep stopping and when you have that gift to be able to just orate what you have to say and get it out and not be so mindful of I'm in front of a room full of people it's more like let me teach you something in a calm manner that you're gonna understand. Well how did you get there, man? Because let me tell you my road was long and terrible it was hard.

SPEAKER_01: 36:09

It was a rough road I got a question for you before we start. Have you ever watched Hot Ones, right? The the piles when people sit across from Sean Evans and go, man, you're so good at this I want to tell you the same thing. Like you asked the you asked the best questions like you're so good. You're so good. Yeah no you know this but it you're so good. Okay so yeah I grew up believe it or not uh if you if you know me personally and I've probably told you the story but uh man I grew up a very very shy kid like nerd in the classroom uh made fun of went to a small private school in Alabama when I was growing up and just got made fun of terribly um transferred to a public school when I was in the eighth grade got involved in drama class and different things like that. So how I learned to get in front of people is through drama class, through uh church I learned to play the guitar and I started leading worship in my church. Man, I always had something to hide behind, right? It was like, oh hide behind a guitar or singing or hide behind a character that I'm acting um and then you do that long enough and you realize someone told me I gotta I gotta say my grandmother was the one who told me this and and it changed my life. She said hey if people are laughing with you they can't laugh at you. And so what I learned is like hey if I were made fun of or if somebody was like oh man like what are you doing up there you look an idiot. I I would just laugh with them and be like yeah I I do look like an idiot right and and that launched into a career of I I worked for a long time making kids content and being silly and stupid and and you always find that but the the the the thing about speaking to people it was different because at first I was nerve wracking because I'm like okay well I I'm share I know I'm passionate about this information because listen when you're when you're playing music you hide behind a guitar when you're acting you can hide behind a character. When you're I mean fill in the blank whatever it is you can hide behind but when you are speaking to people and you're like hey I have something to say here right or I'm leading a podcast and I'm gonna create conversation man for me how I get over those those jitters and it's not that they're not there because they are I think about the audience and I go okay um I'm gonna go to RTO world. I want to respect these people's time so much. If they're gonna come in here and they're gonna sit down and they're gonna listen when I stand up my first thought is not how look how cool I can look look how whatever I have three core values in my life simplicity, authenticity and fun. I want to make leadership in anything I do I I like simple, straightforward I don't like complex. I don't like I like a straight line from point A to B. Authenticity it is literally the thing and listen I'm not great at it I've I've I I I falter all the time but if I can be as real as I can be to someone I'm gonna talk about my flaws. I'm gonna talk about the things that I struggle with. I'm not gonna hide behind this facade of like I've got everything all together and then fun. Like I like people to laugh right I've always I I love comedies I love whatever I I goof off with my friends all the time. And so I take those three things and I go hey if you can come in it you're you're gonna take your time people are taking time to listen to us right now. You took your time to invite me onto this podcast and I go hey I want to show up today and I I want to be simple and clear in what I say. I want to be incredibly authentic and be real and not try to you know put on some kind of show. And then I just want to have some fun. I want to laugh and and and be so so you came and you sat on like literally the front row which I love because having a familiar face there and but when I'm looking around the room I I try to call out people's names I try to say hey listen like let's let's take Johnny over here or let's take let's take Ralph you know or because I want it to be a conversation. I don't want to talk at you right I want to talk with you. Oh God yes um yeah because that there's a huge difference when someone's just drooling on and on and on and on and on and on and on um and you go no let's just stop for a second. I had a pastor years ago working in the church and uh I I used to I worked with him in kids' ministry his name is Mike Moore there's a church here in Tampa called Grace Family Church they do a lot of great work and um best boss I ever had. We do the cleats to clipboard who's the best leader you ever had I always say Mike Moore best leader I ever had. And uh he taught me one time I was speaking to kids and as you can tell now I talk fast and whatever.

SPEAKER_00: 40:08

He's like hey man you did great I need I got to give you some some advice I said okay he goes let it breathe so yes probably one of the biggest things I've heard if you guys don't understand what he's saying he's gonna I'm sure you're gonna tell but yes yeah let it breathe I've had a couple of speeching coaches go listen man I I I I love what you're saying but you just stuck an hour and a half and about 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_01: 40:31

Yeah and I was like I was like I was afraid I didn't have enough content no no no way opposite people can't handle that much right you've got about 25 minutes people are checking out that's why churches are that way for so many years right you you I mean come on man you don't have to be a religious person but if you're sitting in a church or a thing you start looking at your watch you're like okay you've lost people right but when you okay there's a there's a line that we use when we talk about um uh uh leadership it's one of the modules I should I'm embarrassed I should remember which one it is um but there's a there's a statement there that's a tough one right that we look at people and go hey there are no bad teams there are only bad leaders so if you've been sitting in this module listening to it going oh man my team's terrible uh uh there's not bad teams there's only bad leaders I had just read a book Extreme ownership that's where it comes from that's where it comes from I I'm telling you when you were saying that I'm I'm listening to myself go that's you dude it it you have to be that person and go you know what it's not you guys you guys came out here you decided to be here you put all your faith in me and something I did was probably not right if I didn't teach you right if I didn't hold you accountable if I didn't get your feedback I didn't do it right I've got the book amazed I have given away so many copies of that book go buy it right now like it's fantastic Jocko we love you I don't expect you to endorse the show but I love it it was really good but it was a great book it's fantastic and and exactly that's where it comes from there are no bad teams there's only bad leaders but you can't say hey there's no bad teams only bad leaders and let me tell you about you have to go hey there are no bad teams there are only bad leaders and let it and let people process that for a second and go ugh right like that's me so yeah your question was how you get over the heebie jeebies man for me it was just when I walk into a room I want to value your time I I want to be simple authentic and fun and I want to have a conversation with you and that's it. And at the end of the day if someone's like man you were terrible I go okay tell me more about that right like tell me more what what uh what could I have done better for you because we're all a work in progress and we're not everybody's cup of tea right um and you gotta be okay with that.

SPEAKER_00: 42:38

Yes yeah yeah yes you have to understand that you're not gonna fit every lock with your key it just doesn't work that way you know small story I terrified I do a podcast terrified my partner and I a few years ago there was a show that we were gonna be a part of okay so it was an RTO world they said hey put in your put in your what are you gonna talk about or or a subject that you want to talk about we put in for it we did not get selected it was okay we were like this is our first time no big deal yeah it's all right we started talking so then Gentro calls the Friday before the Monday of the show and she says hey guys how you doing hey we're doing great hey listen somebody caught COVID now back then when you caught COVID it was like oh my God it was like you're gone you're gone for two weeks you're not getting from right so it was like okay and she's like hey do you still want to you know go on very cool I believe in certain circumstances putting you on your ear I believe in pivot points I believe God reaches out and says you know what I think it's your time now I'm gonna give you the opportunity what you do with it is on you but I'm gonna give you this opportunity. Yes and so this door opens and so we're looking at each other like are we ready for this? The answer was absolutely no we had nothing ready no slides no nothing so we go through the the the weekend and we're really generally trying to get this done at helped us out you know she said hey bro she helped us out we we we really kind of ran the corner with this thing like full speed so we're we're coming out this like I think we got it. I think we got we really didn't even have much time to go over it like we're in the hotel room going okay you your part and then I'll go and you go so anyways we did this and uh it was it was right after Dan Fisher and his guy did like a two million dollar they're like we have this two million dollar store and I'm like who's gonna want to stay for us after this guy like he killed it. Right and they got slides and they got people in there and the room was absolutely just huge. It was huge more people than I've I like it took me a while to get that back to that many people again. But I was like okay so I came out of that and I'm like I think I'm more terrified than I was before. So then later on Amber Lee decided that you know hey as a company we should do commercials and again I was like no not gonna happen. And so my partner's like you know what I'll do it and I was like there's no way you're gonna beat me there's no like it was just that's the way we were and that's why the the the podcast worked right so we started doing it and he was for for the way it worked out there was always a Laurel Hardy right there's always a Batman and Robin always and the way it just worked out was he was always the more serious figure. It just that's just kind of the way it worked. And so one day I was talking to a a dear friend of mine Steven Stow and you know he's he's big into mentorship. He's he's he he's a God fearing man. I love him to death and one day I called him up and I said listen man I I I don't know where I stand on this because I'm always in fear of being in front of people and now I'm playing the Joker okay I I and I I'm not sure how that's working for me and I I'm I'm just confused about it. And listen I was so distraught I called him while I was shopping in public and I and we're going down the aisles talking together and I'm you know some of the best conversations happen while you're shopping my hands are flying and everything and people probably think I'm going crazy. But you know it happened and he said something to me that completely changed the way I looked at everything. And he said you do realize that it's not that you're better than him or he's better than you. You realize that people watch because it's funny it's harder to be the comedian than the guy who just walks in and says the straight line. Oh yeah it's he's like you have to have timing you have to know what's funny and he goes half the time you say crap that we don't even put on the on you know you you get a a list of words to say right there's a script he's like sometimes you go off script because you feel that character would do A, B, or C. And we leave it in there because it's natural it's like do you know how hard that is no right and he was like listen I I think I think you have a skill that you don't know you have and so you gotta understand what you've been doing is a gift that you have that you didn't even know that you had right and so after talking and discussing I was like you know what I needed somebody to tell me that. Yeah. And he's he's one of my dear friends he will tell me when I'm messing up or here he's straight up like you're an idiot don't do that again. You got to have those people yeah and so after that not that I'm great at public speaking but I did do it and I was like you know what I'm way better at it than I was before and I will tackle this until I feel completely you know like Will Jackson who can do it and drop him a dive and make him look good. But I was I was like I I I didn't know that. That feedback meant so much to me. And I think that's one of the things that resonated when you when I was sitting in your lets I'm listening to it's like I needed this. I needed somebody to tell me that I needed that and and I can I can actually as he's saying it I'm putting the words from his mouth to my ear as you're speaking and I was like you know what I needed that I really needed to hear that. So also on the other side of that besides being able to stand up in front of do a great job in front of everybody you have an amazing voice.

SPEAKER_01: 48:01

Oh thanks you work on that is that natural okay crazy crazy quick story uh no so growing up I and even look going back and listening to myself uh you know old videos or whatever when I was a kid so I grew up in Alabama and um I you can still catch the southern accent you know on certain words right uh but man I so okay okay this is a crazy story so I was living in Alabama moved to Florida left Florida went back to Alabama and my dad I had no job and my dad's like well you can work for me well working for my dad uh that that was he I was like shoveling rocks in the driveway day one my dad's an outdoorsman he has a forestry company so it's just all outdoors work and I turned on the radio and uh a guy I went to high school with was on our local radio station and he he's doing his DJ thing in the morning I was like oh that's cool uh small town Alabama the way it works I saw him at a football game Friday night and I said hey man heard you on the radio that's awesome if you ever need a co-host let me know ha ha ha I never did a radio in my entire life never never thought about doing it and he was like oh man you should come by the station I'll give you a tour I said okay Monday morning uh I you know uh not shoveling rock for my dad I go Monday morning uh and and I show up he's like hey I I kind of lied to you and I said what what he goes I'm moving to Tuscaloosa I need somebody to take my place I think you'd be great this is a job interview my boss is in there waiting for you and I what wow so I go do the job interview he gives me the job um and I'm the only DJ uh in our small town radio station I do a morning show uh five to nine that was the first time that I actually started listening back to my voice on tape hearing how it sounded um and then I left there and moved to back to Tampa and I was on uh QIK here in town for a little bit 995 nothing uh nothing no big show just weekend and night stuff but man uh there's two gentlemen who sadly they're they're both passed on but uh Dave McKay and Randy Price I used to be Randy and Dave uh they really were I called them my my radio Yodas they brought me in and uh I used to go to the morning show sit with them Cletus T. Judd was a guy here in town for a while I'd worked with him for a while and they were all just so giving and like hey man you can do this you can do that. And it just kind of I don't know like I mean I can't say I ever worked on it but maybe listening to people long enough in that in that industry just going okay well maybe say things like that or maybe do this and so um yeah but I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00: 50:13

Have you ever done this? This is something that I do I don't know if everybody knows this I'm gonna tell you this I'm gonna I'm gonna confess to Will Jackson bring it on I actually started modeling the way I talk after a radio host and sometimes I gotta say like sometimes I'll find myself not only listening to the content of the podcaster I'm listening to the presentation. For sure how it comes out what they're saying how they're resonating how their power points how they're coming through and saying this one point. And sometimes they'll say that point again let me say that again this is what you need to do. This is what you need to focus on. If you get anything out of this stop and listen to this and I was like I I got I I don't have a class to take so I'm really learning from these guys from the people on the radio the people on podcasting and and just going wow yeah you know there they there I I actually just to put it out there I actually enrolled in masterclass oh yeah because I because I'm gonna start watching video. Did you really?

SPEAKER_01: 51:13

Oh yeah dude I love master class I'm like I'm gonna I'm somebody's gonna show me something oh yeah uh and I've been under this huge learning curve for like the last two years dude but but that goes back to what we've been talking about right like you took the initiative to say hey I want to get better at something if you've ever seen somebody on stage and listen anybody who's like yeah man I was just born with it natural talent I just jumped up on the stage or I just started a podcast and then from there it just took off no they're lying to you right they're just lying to you. They're not being authentic and saying it's been a lot of work it's been a lot of even things they wouldn't think to call work right like masterclass I'm sure is fun for you. You're watching it you listen to the thing you're you're learning but that's work. It's just because you love it. And listen again I've heard your show and and we said it earlier my dad used to tell me the same thing. Once you find something that you love you'll never work a day in your life right and so if you're out there and you're like oh man I'd love to do a podcast oh man I'd love to get up and have a public speaking or do this like just know that there's just you just need to become a student of everyone you come across. I mean I'm watching you today we talked about it before we started the show I told you I'm like hey man please let's go to lunch I'd love to pick your brain because you've made a successful podcast and that's not easy right and uh and yeah you be a student of everyone we stay in the leadership training Epictetus Stoic philosophy I won't get started we don't have enough time Ryan Holiday Daily Stoic look it up it's been a life changer for me first book I ever read when I went on this journey for me was Ego is the enemy um Ryan Holiday again don't know how much we can shout out authors and stuff on your podcast but great stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 52:38

Well listen if you guys are listening we do read your books. Yeah yeah I mean one of my last books uh before this one and uh I you know I just finished Extreme ownership and I actually picked up the dichotomy of leadership by the Okay haven't read that one yet so I actually started with Simon Sinek Leaders Eat Last and uh you know start with your wife so good and man those eye opening it was it was like the fog started like kind of separating a little bit and it was like I can make the shapes out now I can see a little bit clearly and as the book started coming in and as the communications started getting better it was like I see something a direction where I want to go and you know I I stand I tell my guys all the time listen we're standing on a map where you want to go is up to you.

SPEAKER_01: 53:24

Yeah you tell me where you want to go you want to go north south east west you want to go to the beach you want to you want to go to Vegas you want to do this just tell me where you want to go because that's how we get that you don't start driving and hoping that you're gonna go there you're gonna go I need to go here and then you start driving 100% you will drift otherwise and here's what to to even bring it back to our industry and what we do rent to own here's here's what we teach a lot of people who come in and who've never done rent to own we have a lot of franchises who they they you know they buy into R and R but they've never known rent to own so we teach them like hey you know this business really is all about relationship and and if you're sitting here listening to this and you're an RTO for you even if you're a salesperson right if you're like hey I don't want to leader I'm a salesperson pick up some of these books and read them because our business is people right it's people even more so than I would say someone who does retail right because someone's gonna come in you know we tell our people hey someone's gonna come in and buy tires from you know tire shop B down the street right and they're not gonna see them again for another two years. But you know rent to own we have regulars we have people that we talk to all the time it's almost like a restaurant it's almost like the hospitality industry to go, you need to know people because you're serving them every single day. So when you like the things we teach in our classes if you can get rid of your ego if you can learn to take feedback if you can you know if you can be authentic with people if you can you know create great boundaries for your team all these things they're not just designed for leaders it's they're designed for anybody. So if you're out there going I don't want to read that stuff because I'm not leadership I'm just going do my job every day if you're in rent to own you can absolutely benefit from learning people better and uh pour into yourself like you've been saying you know again to to quote other shows of yours it's it's and even today is is hey you are the biggest asset that you can work on. Right. And so take time and and do that kind of stuff. And the epictetus quote is you can't learn that which you think you already know and oh God yes you can't learn that which you think you already know so if you're like man I've been in this industry 40 years, 50 years, man, be careful because the moment you get to a place where you go I've learned it all that's a downfall. Yeah man so people are going to pass you right because those people who are hungry and who can learn from anybody they're gonna continue to do that and you're gonna be left in the dust and going oh what happened well you you stopped learning you stopped growing well you create you you've done a great job in creating this persona the the the guy who is has the ability to teach leaders you come from a place where you had to be humbled you're here now.

SPEAKER_00: 55:45

How does that translate to the R and R social media? Because you're the face of that as well listen I said it before I'll say I got a face for radio you have the ability not only to have the voice but you have the you have the ability to command what's going on on video and you do that very well especially what's going on with social media because in rent own we need it and to be able to do that is and I've got to say it is different than standing in front of a group of your peers and saying this is how you do leadership this is how you do this how you do that or reading a book. Social media is its own beast and yet you've managed to do that very well.

SPEAKER_01: 56:19

Yeah thanks so so how did that transition happen like you see like somebody said hey man uh we need to be able to do social media better will Jackson's gonna do it well I I gotta give credit to Adam for that one he's the one who said hey you know we should bring this guy in and Michelle Ross she's uh she's our uh I I've messed up people's titles at R and R all the time I want to say national content coordinator director sorry Michelle you know I you know I know what you do um but but but she is so great at making it so easy her and Brian uh they come together they write all the scripts they do all the stuff if I had to say anything man if you're out there and you how how do I connect better people on social media just be authentic people can see right through you there uh another quote from our leadership class is to say the less transparent you are the more people can see right through you um wow that's a good quote yeah because it and thanks and it because for me I I think when you're when you're disingenuine right whether it's on film, in person, man, people, it's like blood in the water. People sniff that out immediately and they go, I don't trust that person. Yes. Right? So when you when I'm on camera, uh I just try my best to go, hey, what would I want to watch? Who would I connect with? What would I want this person to say when we're giving away a car to single moms, dude, I'm just as excited for that single I'm not gonna lie to you because I do research on everybody that comes on the show and that's the last one I saw. Yeah man it's like I'm just as excited when when we're when we're awarding people any prize that we've given them I think to myself how would I feel I don't want to be like hey and congratulations here's your car. It's like no dude here's your car like you one of three car. And it really is about just saying hey I just want to be real. I I don't want people I don't want you to turn the camera off today on this show and then me and you be like hey man so that all that stuff I said which is you know BS and and I'm just you know no I'm keys yeah see you later right I I I want to be the same person I am when the light is on and when the light is off and when and and when when you do that people just feel it whether you're giving away a car or you're teaching leadership right people can go yeah I trust that person okay listen gonna nerd out for just a second I'm I'm an old soul uh I love Johnny Carson I have so many Johnny Carson DVDs and the Tonight show I just love that era and Johnny Carson wasn't anything special but it's just when you when you read interviews I've read so many biographies of his uh he goes hey people just felt like they knew him he they he was in their home every single night and if you go watch him again doing research watching people learning from them Johnny Carson was just this guy he was just he he he he did a show he was one of the most popular people on the planet for his time but he was just very humble right he was just very I mean not in his personal life but when on TV he was just he was very hey you know I'm here I'm I'm just here to be my authentic self and uh yeah man you just you you learn from that and you grow from from from learning from people like that and just be yourself. That's it.

SPEAKER_00: 59:06

Yeah well the way I the way I was looking at it is because Arnor is doing things in my opinion. And I'm not saying that others aren't doing it. I just see that every time that you guys see a need, there's an address. Okay let's address that. Let's fix that. And it's not and I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the old school or methods that have happened before but I do see the need to upgrade a little bit make it a little bit newer because we have a lot of generations here that have access to things that we just didn't have at a certain time in our life listen I learned differently than my daughter I guarantee you that she can navigate a tablet way better than I can she's five. So it's one of those things like you know I know that I know that it's different. I know that it's not the same when you and the team of RR said we need this leadership we need to be able to have somebody who can show this it was in a response I would imagine to somebody either saying we had this one occurrence or we've had a few occurrences we've got to address this I would imagine that it's gotten better. How do you feel about the state of RTO right now? Is this something that we need to do overall is this something that I should tell every single you know owner hey man you probably should have or implement or do something into the effect and not that I'm saying that they should do that but in conversation hey if you're having this problem this is probably an avenue to go down is it do you feel like rent own can use that right now?

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:27

Absolutely I I I think I think everyone can use it but I think rent to own for sure and we're specifically talking about the leadership training stuff right yeah okay so 100% I think every industry needs it. I think our industry because of the relational uh aspect of our industry it can only help us right and and if you're out there and you're going oh I've got these people who they're fantastic salespeople they're fantastic account specialists they do all this stuff but when it comes to people I mean you know we tell people if you have a store and you're looking at the store and there's a bunch of turnover right well the the first person I'm looking at is the leader. You know people don't leave a position they leave a person. And so with leadership training you can reduce turnover. We've seen it increase sales um I know you've had Adam on and he talked about DX3 and creating a great culture. That's what it is right we you have to create a great culture within your organization. People have to be happy because listen there's no way that if you're a leader whether you're a CEO whether you're a regional manager whether you're a manager there is no way that you can touch every single customer there's no way that you can touch every single person that comes into your store that's going to be your team and if that team is burned out if that team is unhappy if that team feels unheard a list of things there your customers are going to feel that right your customers going to feel that disgruntled that disengaged team member and so I would say heck yeah right there there leadership training will never ever hurt your organization. It can only help your organization and if there's any way that we can help anybody else out there to go hey here's what we've done this is not a hey this is ours not yours these are principles that we have taken from books that we have taken from conversations there's things that me and you will talk about today you know I always love when we do one of these things I'll tell people you know we we've um we the the the cool thing we got to do is we got to take this all around the country with our franchisees um and and shout out to Mr Ryan Schrader he you know you talk about not being ready and being scared we had done this for our MITs but Ryan just you know knocked on my door one day and he's like hey I like this leadership training thing we should take it on the road and I said oh okay he's like we got our national conference I'd like to announce it and let's take it to Virginia and I said okay hey No idea what we were doing. R and R, Virginia was the roses. They were kind enough to go, like, yeah, come do it. And supportive of us, not knowing what it was, what it was going to be. Um, and Jonathan and Ron, I tell them all the time, thank you, thank you, thank you for having us in. And Ron Russell, they just did such a such a uh solid to us of having us out there. But yeah, man, we we're in classes and people will say stuff and I'll be like, oh, and I'll tell them, like, hey, just so you know, I'm stealing that for our for our next talk, and I'm I'll put your name under it, like hey, blah, blah, blah, Lily, right? Like she said that. Uh, because we just learn from each other. And so to get back to the point, I would say, if you're out there and you're thinking, should I do this? Could I do this? Yeah, you should. And I'll help you any way I can because we can only get better as an industry. We're all in this together. When one of us wins, everyone wins, right? And when one of us lose, everyone loses. If somebody comes in and to a different, you know, RTO store that's not R and R and they have a bad experience with rent to own, well, then they're gonna call their cousin and be like, dude, don't do rent to own. That was a terrible experience. So when when when you win, we win, right? And when we lose, you lose. It's you know, it's like we we need to be in this together. Um, so yeah, I I would encourage anyone to do leadership training. It can only help you. There's absolutely no way it can hurt you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:47

You know what's funny? Uh, and I said this to them, they did not listen to me. I'll tell you guys right now. So I'm walking through in Omaha, I'm walking through the bridge to the conference center, you know, because you had to go over and then go down. And as I'm coming up the hotel side, going over the bridge, I happen to actually walk with Ron and his brother. And I said, you know, guys, just so you guys know, there's a lot of people that mention your names as I go on. I talk to a lot of people, and um they were like, they both both of them, both, nah, that's not true. So humble. Listen, guys, they they talk about the roses, they they really do. Yeah, so if you're listening, I want you to understand. Will said it and I say it. You guys are important to what's going on. Everybody's important to what's going on, and I'm so worried about the future uh of rent to own and the development part and what happens. But listen, I want to play a little game with you. Please. I'm gonna do some rapid fire real quick. Let's do it. Come on. Okay, so biggest leadership mistake you've made and learn from.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:44

Okay. Uh okay, gotta pick one real quick. I would say biggest leadership mistake I've learned from is uh this is gonna sound so simple, but I'm just gonna say it. Uh, man, question yourself first. I always used to assume I was right, right? I like I'm right, you know, dude. I okay, embarrassing story. I worked at a church and I literally was almost in a fist fight with somebody over a lighting package for a kid service, right? And you just you let your tempers fly, you get, you know, I'm always right, I can't be wrong. Um, just had somebody call me out on this last week. They're like, you know what you say a lot? Like, oh, hey, I would have done this, dude. You got to remove that from your vocabulary, right? Um be curious, not combative, right? When when when you're in a situation to where you feel like I'm right, be curious instead of combative. Hey, tell me more about that. How could I have done that differently? So, yeah, my biggest mistake is I was combative uh for a long time and still can be.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:38

I can tell you right now it takes a lot to be able to recognize that. Congratulations. Number two, one book that every new manager should read.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:46

Okay. Uh Ego is the enemy. I I feel like really Ryan Holiday, Ego is the enemy, or Jocko Willink Extreme Ownership. Both of those paired together. If you only read those two books, you'd be a better leader uh immediately.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:00

Ego is the enemy. I'm gonna have to remember that one. I'll have to take that one in. Best piece of advice you received about leadership.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:06

Best piece of advice that I've received about leadership. Um, I would say uh you cannot expect what you don't inspect. Um again, Mike Moore, he would he would always go back to, you know, you can get upset about so-and-so did this and blah, blah, blah. Okay. Well, are you talking to them? Did you did you ask them questions? Did you just give them a task and let them go, right? And then come back later and be like, what happened here? You cannot expect what you don't inspect. Be in contact with your people, have one-on-one meetings, build relationships with them. Don't just check in every now and then because you're the leader and I got better stuff I got going on. No, those people are what you have going on, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:48

So Oh, the the first person I ever heard that from was Phil Hammer and Buddy. So I guess shout out to you, Phil. I heard that. Uh what would five years ago, Will, be most surprised about regarding your current role?

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:59

Uh, that I'm doing anything with tires. Uh no, I know I uh okay, so truly, okay, five years ago, me, um, I would probably be very surprised. Um that, yeah, man, I'm getting to do what I get to do. I'm gonna be honest with you. This has been the best year of my life professionally I've ever had, right? Um, and it's been because going back to what we said already, I'm getting to do what I what I love to do. Um, man, just a shout out to A Pro to be able to go to A Pro and do what we did. Charles, Jen, like that whole team. I I I never been to A Pro was my first time going, and I just came back singing. What was it? My first time, man. Really? The first time. Tell me, did you enjoy it? I loved it. Loved it. I love dunking everybody too. I did so much fun. So much fun. I loved it. I did. I've come back and told our whole team, like, hey, we need to be there. More of us need to be there. We need to support that because just the the people and and the organization is fantastic. So uh, but um, yeah, five years ago, me would be astonished that I'm getting to do this because five years ago me would just have been coming out of being uh just one of the worst leaders uh that you can possibly imagine. And so to be able to go around and and help people learn from the mistakes I've made and be that information broker that Joe Peachy talks about, um, yeah, he'd be he'd be very, very surprised and be very happy to be sitting here with you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:15

You're doing a great job. Thank you. I will tell you this uh before I get into the final cut, I wanted to so much be a part of something. April's giving me a chance to do that. Yeah, and I love that. Are you gonna go to advocate at DC this year?

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:28

Oh, I I don't know. I will tell, listen, I every time I see Charles, I'm like, hey man, anything I can do, whatever I can do, I I I just think, listen, I'm I'm sorry, this is gonna sound like brown nose, and it's really not. Uh I met Charles uh at one of our uh uh franchise conferences, and uh everything that was said about him when they gave him the award when they stood up this year is just so true. I I've never, and I saw him in Missouri at uh Mr. Cariko's conference I was able to go to. Uh he just is who he says he is and does what he says he does, and uh very thankful for him and the organization. So I'll tell you right now, Charles, if you're listening, and I hope you are any way, anything I can ever do to help out Apro, you guys just let me know and I'm there.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:03

Okay, you know, every time I talk to Charles, now I jab him in the ribs and I'm like, doctor, he literally is a doctor and a he's a lawyer, doctor. This guy has so many S's on his chest. I know. I you know, I jab him because it's fun, but he is probably one of the smartest people I've ever met in my life. And he's very genuine and he really cares about what happens to April. He happened, he cares to happen what happens in RTO, and that's why I care about what happens in DC. So, you know, just to let you guys know, April is doing DC this year, the 15th, the 17th, and April. If you want to go to LedgeCon, hit up at the time. April is at rtohq.org, and you definitely want to check it out because it is so important. And if you get to go, listen, I hope you do because it's so important. But last words, I wanted to get back to the F word. All right. God, so where did I? So, you know, I'll let you describe what the F word is. Yeah, but man, did that, you know, the whole thing. I'm just gonna tell you right now. I, and of course, yes, I was in the front, but I enjoyed the whole thing. Thank you. I really, really did. Because I when when you said the text, I literally did that. And he was like, Oh, thank you. That was awkward, right? It was awkward, and I was like, God, I don't do this enough. No, yeah. I he was right, I don't do it enough. I didn't do it enough, and I was and it, and it shocked me because you think you're doing a good job, right? You know, and you are that one person and you have people behind you. No, that's you. That's your echo chamber going, you're doing a good job, people. But when you look back there, there's nobody there. That's you thinking that. It's you're thinking that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:32

Say that again for the people in the back. Like what you just said is so powerful. You have that voice in your head that's telling you, man, you're doing awesome. Well, that's your voice, right? Yeah. If other people aren't telling you that without you, you know, because remember, if you're a leader, people are gonna tell you good things, they're not gonna tell you bad things. You're gonna have to seek out that feedback. Um, yeah, it and you know, there's a quote like, Hey, if you're a leader and you have to tell people you're a leader, you're not. You're already failed. Yeah, other people will say it for you. So the F word. Um, okay, back to simplicity, authenticity, and fun. Um, the F word for me, it's feedback, right? And it started out, we had a thing on feedback and just me wanting to have fun with people and make leadership class fun. I mean, that literally was is the way it is, so that it goes on a billboard or the sheet, and people are like, oh, the F word, what's that? So that you come in because I'd be like, hey, feedback, how to be better, right? You know, it's like, oh, I don't know what to be able to do that. F-word, I'm in, right? Um, so yeah, and and and we try to make it fun, simple, and authentic. And and really, feedback for me was something that I still struggle with at times, uh, that I need to be better at. Um, I talk about it in the class about my face, right? When Adam's giving me feedback and he said, Hey, your face is all like, you know, terrible. Uh I love that slide.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:39

I love that. Oh, yeah, I don't know. Because that's me. Sometimes I'm looking at the video and I'm going, Pete, you got to do a better job right now.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:45

Right. And no, but so that that's it, man. Feedback is how you give it, how you receive it. I would suggest two books to people, uh, Radical Candor by Kim Scott talks about how, you know, if we're going to give feedback to people, you have to care personally and challenge directly. It's tough, easy to say, hard to do, right? Hey, I care about you. Using the situation behavior impact method, hey, here's the situation. You know, here's what you did, here's how it impacted other people. Um, and then uh, and then uh thanks for the feedback, which is the the the why we get that book will tell you like why you get so triggered when you receive feedback, right? When someone's bringing you feedback and we get that feeling inside of us where we want to get defensive, well, why is that? Right? Usually because it's either you think it's untrue or it is untrue and someone's giving you feedback that's not right. Uh, your relationship with that person and what you think of them, your opinion of them, or it's built into your identity. So when someone comes and goes, hey man, I gotta be honest, I'm struggling with your leadership, but in your mind, that voice that you were talking about in your head has been, you're the best leader ever. That's it, right? You go, Well, that can't be true because I am the best leader ever. No, you're you're a complex person. You can be a great leader and make mistakes, right? So those two books really encompass all of our of our F-word talk. Um, but it's uh it's great. I don't know where you can find the A Pro video. I know they filmed the A Pro video. I think they're still on release. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:58

I think they're gonna go through it and they're supposed to be releasing it soon. So I'm I'm I can't wait to see that. I will say that uh there's two things that I've learned in life. You can do everything right and still get it wrong. And the other thing is that as you were talking about the RR social media and stuff like that, there is a book called, and I can't remember the name of the author, but it's creating super fans. Um and she kind of describes on how not to just make people enjoy what you do, but to really be fans of what you do. Yeah, that is a huge difference. You know what I mean? I'm a fan of the 96 Bulls, I don't watch them anymore. Right. There's a big difference. Right. So, guys, I just want to tell you, I've loved being on here with you. We're gonna have to have you on here again.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:35

Dude, anytime. I this has been so much fun for me. You do such a great show. I would love to be back here anytime you would have to.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:40

Yes, let's do it. So listen, if you guys have any questions, please hit me up at the show. It's Pete at the RTO Show Podcast.com. That's my email directly. If you want to see some of the crazy shenanigans that I get into, go to the online. It's www.thertoshowpodcast.com. You can see some videos on there, some pictures that I take with people, and some of the videos that I've been in. And we can do that. Or you can hit me up on the DMs online. It's Facebook, Instagram, a lot going on in LinkedIn and YouTube where you're gonna see this. And Well, I really appreciate you being here. It's been an amazing conversation that we're gonna do probably part two at some point in time. And I would tell you as always, get your collections low to get your sales high. Have a great one.