The RTO Show "Let's talk Rent to Own"

Legend: Kathy Windsor of Nation TV Sales & Rental

• Pete Shau • Season 7 • Episode 2

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A family credit line, a few sturdy appliances, and a belief that people deserve dignity—that’s where our conversation with Kathy Windsor begins. From Texas beginnings to a Missouri legacy, we trace how National TV Sales and Rental grew on discipline, low collections, and vendor trust rather than bank debt or shortcuts.

Kathy takes us inside the early days of rent-to-own when financing was scarce and selection was thin—three living room SKUs, coil stoves, and refrigerators you could count on. Then came the VCR boom, a moment that reshaped demand and taught the team to keep scanning for the next category that could transform the floor. We talk about advocacy and the day policy nearly sank the industry: when the IRS pushed three-year depreciation on products that typically turned in 18 months. Mark Windsor’s direct work with lawmakers helped protect a business model and countless livelihoods, a reminder that relationships and straight talk still move mountains.

The hardest chapter hits like a siren: a 13-alarm fire leveled their warehouse the night before a managers’ meeting, wiping out premium inventory. What saved them? Years of paying vendors on time and treating every partner like a stakeholder. Whirlpool and furniture suppliers answered with emergency deliveries, warehouse pricing, and generous dating that kept stores open and teams working. Kathy also shares the human side: a collections culture rooted in fairness, a habit of anonymous giving, and Operation Fresh Start, which furnishes homes for families starting over. Three generations of customers later, loyalty looks like a client choosing to buy a Nintendo through them instead of a big-box store—because loyalty earned the sale.

We round out with succession and purpose. Aaron’s journey from routes to president modernized culture while guarding the Windsor non-negotiables: low charge-offs, quality goods, and steady growth. Kathy’s next act—farm-to-table beef—carries the same rigor: non-GMO feed, no antibiotics or growth hormones, and direct sales that reward trust. We look ahead to real headwinds—tariffs, inflation, shifting labor expectations—and explain why staying debt-light, vendor-connected, and essential-first will win the next decade.

If this story sparked ideas or gave you courage to lead with conviction, subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway. Then email your questions to Pete@theRTOShow Podcast.com and we’ll keep the conversation going.

APRO
Association of Progressive Rental Organizations

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SPEAKER_01:

Hey everybody, welcome to the RTO show. I'm your host, Pete Choo, and today I'm with a different legend who has been in this business for a very long time. We're gonna see a different side of things with Miss Kathy Windsor. And let me tell you, their family is all over the area. Now, your son, does he run the business now?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, he is president.

SPEAKER_01:

So Aaron runs the business. Okay. So if you guys know Aaron, he's the guy with the hat and he comes around with the he's got that the manliest beard, I know. Uh I love him. He's a great guy. So, Kathy, in your years that you've done this, this is a family thing now.

SPEAKER_00:

It is. All right. At one time we had 13 family members working there at one time. But now there's just three of us. But uh, and I'd I'm I have given the reins over to Aaron, and I'm the CEO and the owner, but I've kind of gone back to the farm and have joined another men's club that I have to break through.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, you're not shy of that.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I've done it before.

SPEAKER_01:

The entire name of the business is National TV Rental and Sales.

SPEAKER_00:

National TV Sales and Rental.

SPEAKER_01:

Sales and rentals. Okay, I got it.

SPEAKER_00:

Forget the name in the middle.

SPEAKER_01:

I gotta get it right. So when you guys started this, what year was that about?

SPEAKER_00:

We started in Missouri. This is our 39th anniversary. So we started in Missouri in um 84.

SPEAKER_01:

So we've been in the business.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh 40 about 44 years, but we don't count the other ones because we sold that company in Texas. We started in Texas. Uh I was uh corporate manager for 7-Eleven. Uh just had Aaron, and Mark just didn't decide that he knew more than a boss. So he wasn't working at the time. He was drawing unemployment for the first time. So a gentleman from Lone Star TV kept calling him, wanting him to come in, come in, come in, and Mark would say, Today? And he said, Yeah, today. He says, Okay, and then Mark wouldn't come in. So about the fourth day, this gentleman called him. He said, I'll deal you a deal. You either come in today and come to work, or I'm gonna call unemployment. So Mark went in there, and uh they couldn't believe they paid him for this. And they just handed him a bunch of cards that says the set or the money, and he loved it. And he got raises his first two years, and then about two years later, we opened up across the street. And the type of man Mark was, he was still working out his um two weeks' notice across the street, and I opened up our own business on the other side. Okay, so we were going against each other.

SPEAKER_01:

Family competition.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but then um had another kit, had two more kids, and Gal the Texas area was a little rough. So we moved back to Missouri and opened our own in '86.

SPEAKER_01:

So we are talking about Mark Windsor.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So Mark Windsor is the patriarch of what started with you. Yes. And then funnels down to Aaron. Are any of the other children involved in this?

SPEAKER_00:

Michelle, my youngest daughter, she does the uh vehicles and she does uh keeps part of some of the checkbooks and stuff like that. She's not involved in a lot because I pulled her away to sell beef.

SPEAKER_01:

So I mean, you've been in this business a long time.

SPEAKER_00:

I have.

SPEAKER_01:

You and you, your husband, your family have done a lot with this business, not including with Apro, but kind of opening these businesses. Where are the primary uh locations of the store? What state states do you? It's Missouri. They're all in Missouri. Yes, they are. So you start in '86 in Missouri. What was it like starting back then? Because that like back then was like the Wild West. It wasn't like now where I can go to a buddy's and get a franchise, or I can, you know, kind of start because I know that the I know kind of like the cookie-cutter outfits of what we already have done. But back then there wasn't nothing pre-listed. It was kind of like, hey, everybody's kind of going to everybody else and kind of figuring it all out. How was it like starting in 86?

SPEAKER_00:

There was no one in Missouri and financing was unheard of. And we ended up with uh asking Mark's father and one of Mark's father and a business another business associate. Mark's father said, no, no one's gonna rent to own, no one's gonna do that. But the business partner said, Dick, if you don't do it, I will. So then we started the business with$30,000 cash and a hundred and fifty thousand dollar credit line because we had these two businessmen that signed off on us. And we just just bought a little bit of time and that's what we did.

SPEAKER_01:

That you know, you're not the first person to say that, but you are a part of a member of very few people who would who did it that way because it's a lot harder. It's a very caste-intensive business up front when you're trying to fill showrooms and do that, such. So going in with a with a with that very, you know, set mindset of we're gonna do it, you know, through the business and not just take out loans and kind of do that. And not that it is anything wrong with that, but like how did that set some kind of, you know, did you get a couple speed bumps because there wasn't a lot of monetary uh capital in the background?

SPEAKER_00:

Right, because when you're out, you're out.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

We didn't go and get more money or whatever. We've got some dating later on when we'd made a name for ourselves. But uh we just had like a furniture salesman that used to come around and had five or six lines, and then we had a distributor that had uh appliances and televisions, and we just had the two to start, but we paid our bills on time and they increased our credit limit and it worked.

SPEAKER_01:

So, who was the first company that you did business with?

SPEAKER_00:

Otco.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't think I remember them.

SPEAKER_00:

Uhco is the appliance, and we still do business with them. We still buy our ACs and things from them. And then we FC Grace was what they used to call a ragman. He would come around and see you, and he had a big satchel, and he had all these swatches and different companies and stuff, and you would buy you had to buy something from him because he had so many lines, but that covered all of our furniture and stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

So when he came in with with rent owned being new, did he just come in and say, Okay, I'm gonna we're we're gonna go ahead and open that line, or was there some trepidation there, kind of like, hey, I you gotta explain to me, what are we doing? Yeah, he he uh liked me and and did that that helped did that help get it over, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

He liked me because he would come in and Tehek was sitting on my desk. I just get on the floor and start playing with you know the swatches and the and the different pieces of furniture. And he felt that we were good Christian people and he believed in it. So we started with all of his lines and paid our bills and it increased from there.

SPEAKER_01:

When you did the furniture, if you remember, like was there a huge selection at that point in time?

unknown:

No, there wasn't.

SPEAKER_01:

What what kind of what kind of selection did you have back then?

SPEAKER_00:

Like for living room furniture, we only bought from one per one person, and I would buy, they probably had three SKUs that I liked because I was very uh picky about what I uh brought into the store. It had to last, it had to pass past my test. And um, so I would just get those three model numbers and I would put like two fabrics on each of the styles, so I'd have a full truck.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So so it was basically like one model with different colors on it.

SPEAKER_00:

Three models for different colors on it. Three different colors.

SPEAKER_01:

That's okay.

SPEAKER_00:

And it all came from the same person.

SPEAKER_01:

So then what appliances did you guys get? Was it just a simple washer and dryer? Was there a like a level, entry-level, middle level, high level?

SPEAKER_00:

Not the end. Then it was just a washer and dryer and a 17-foot refrigerator and a 21-foot side by side with no ice and water, and uh coil stove.

SPEAKER_01:

Those are like a staples. I don't think coil stoves have gone anywhere. And they kind of look a little bit different, but they're all about the same, right? So we started in '86. When was it that you kind of started branching out into other things besides those main core items?

SPEAKER_00:

First we got it making a profit, Lebanon making a profit. When it started making a profit, then we opened up another store in Clinton. So that took up all of our uh line of credit again. And then they would have sales, and then you would just bring in or try something. Uh the VCRs became a little bit more affordable and with a wireless remote instead of a wired remote, so you just added to it. Uh, we started out in Texas, we only had a 19-inch TV and a 25-inch console, and that's all you had. And you didn't get to pick it out. Depending on your app, we gave you a television equal to your app. So if it your application didn't pan out, no one answered the phone, then you got a used one out of the back. Now, when you paid that off, then I'd give you a brand new one.

SPEAKER_01:

Understood.

SPEAKER_00:

We was the only deal in town, or one of the only deals, because rent home started in Texas. So it was either us or nobody.

SPEAKER_01:

So, how did you develop when you start 86? You have a couple of simple lineup core items. Where did you get the information, or how did you set up like the application process or the rental order process and the agreements at that point in time?

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, we took had our agreements and our applications from Texas, took them to the local lawyer, and followed all the 10-point and followed all the rules and regulations. Uh, there wasn't that much change from Missouri. We didn't have computers, we did have the big bank machines, so you'd put the cards in the bank machines and it would make a bunch of noise and print the receipt. And then when you couldn't get parts for the bank machines, then you did everything by hand. So you would write all this information on two cards and a receipt, and it it's a lot of work by hand.

SPEAKER_01:

I I I wasn't ever a part of it, but I do know a lot of people who have gone through it, and it it makes you appreciate what you have now.

SPEAKER_00:

And you counted your inventory every day, so you had a running, if you rented one TV and received in two, then you had to come up with that number. And uh it was it was a lot of paperwork.

SPEAKER_01:

So what so then my next question is when did you receive or when did you start electronically doing your operations? So when was the first point of sale system that you had?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh we started out with the accounting sits uh uh first with a big machine. Uh it took up half of a room, but a big computer and it had big discs and it was on DOS and it made all those noises and stuff. That's what we started out on. And then uh it's probably 10 years later, we researched and come up with a a gentleman uh that had cash. That was the name of his company, and we rearranged it to take care of our inventory. We still kept a different accounting system, but at least took care of our inventory.

SPEAKER_01:

So you had two different systems?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's something we've had two systems mostly all the time. I think I think Aaron's on one now, but uh we've had two accounting system and the other system for years.

SPEAKER_01:

What system do you use now?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh we're in VersaRent for accounting, and uh Red Ring Red Wing is our accounting system.

SPEAKER_01:

Red Wing, okay. So what was after after you get set up, how long was it before you got the computer system? You said about 10 years, but was that from 10 years from 86? Or like was it 96 when we got the computer system or early early?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh 96, yeah. Yeah, yeah, we had three three or four stores before we got the computer system. And the stores all come to the corporate office and sit down there, and and they had done the computers and they had them all in line and they had their training system training for two days and took them back to the store and plugged them in.

SPEAKER_01:

Did that switch over to this new system really help fuel kind of I wouldn't say growth, but the way business did it help your business get along a little easier to grow?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, because there was less uh paperwork, less hand paperwork, so it gave them more time to do other things.

SPEAKER_01:

Get on the floor itself.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So no one would absolutely understand doing it the paperwork way. It was it was some tedious.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Tedious. So, like back in let's say late 80s, going on to early 90s, was there something that kind of came in that really changed fundamentally the way so you had the core products? Was there something else that kind of came in during those time frames? When did you guys start doing like maybe computers or something different?

SPEAKER_00:

We did start computers for a while after that. I think the V the VCR was our main thing because in my years of purchasing, that was always my tagline is I want to find the next VCR. Because we rented VCRs for the a three-day weekend or rent to own or as fast as we could rent them because it was the only way of people getting entertainment. We even had the tapes and you know, the pit tapes that they could rent. So they could rent a VCR and five tapes for three days.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow, good. That's that's a pretty nice idea. So when did you start becoming an advocate with APRO?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh we've been APRO like 27 years.

SPEAKER_01:

So that's what that is right at the late 80s, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Mar um Mark Conn has kept us uh away from everything. He thought he could do everything better. And same way with the TRIB organization, which I was the main TRI advocate, but uh then he started getting in, he started going to DC. In fact, he had gone to every single DC uh uh convention there was in DC until he got sick. So when he stick when he got into APRO, he both feet.

SPEAKER_01:

Both feet?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And he ended up uh was on the board for like four years and and was a second vice president, I believe.

SPEAKER_01:

As you're going through all of this, you were creating a new business. We're starting it up, we're putting furniture in, we're putting appliances, we're kind of growing. Was there any hurdles during that time that you had to overcome, being that rent to own wasn't as solid as it is now, maybe not as well known? Some hurdles that that came across back then that you had to overcome?

SPEAKER_00:

A lot of people didn't understand it and they didn't think that we everybody thought we were cheating them, so you have to sit down and explain it to them to them. Our biggest hurdle was 20 years ago. Uh, we had built a very large corporate office and warehouse. We brought everything into the warehouse and the new product, and we also serviced all of our own product, and it caught on fire a day before our manager's meeting.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00:

So the warehouse was full of those of$2,500 big screen TVs and$2,000 computers. I mean, absolutely full of them. And if it had happened 24 hours later, we'd have been okay. But uh we got hit pretty hard on that. But if it wouldn't have been for the vendors, we wouldn't have made it.

SPEAKER_01:

How did how did that happen?

SPEAKER_00:

Because I had multiple vendors call me and two of them had a plan. I didn't even have to ask. They had a plan what they was gonna do. Uh Whirlpool was one of them. Brian Duke, he called me and um said, I will deliver six pieces to each store that you want, and I will go ahead and give you all your discounts and all your warehouse pricing.

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

And 90 days, I think. And then uh one of the furniture guys came in, heard about it, and come in because I I was on every television station in the state of Missouri that was a 13 alarm fire. And he heard about it, and he was there within two days with a notebook for me and a new price list and everything. And he did the same thing. He would deliver six sets to a store and still give me truckload pricing.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

And then we had Welton, and they gave us 90-day pricing, and they and they did ask, is it safe? And Mark says, Of course it's safe. Your money's safe. So it was the vendors that got us through. And we rebuilt and we're still in that that building today.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you know what happened? Like what started it? It was electrical. Usually those that are the unseen until it's a little bit kind of too late, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Of course, they tried to the insurance company went to court or librigations or whatever, trying to get out of it. But then they brought me on to uh testify, and I testified for the the electrician, not against him. So I wasn't in there very long.

SPEAKER_01:

So back then, now that we're doing advocacy, we're kind of running on all cylinders. Joining APRO. What were some of the things like back then that we had to kind of break through? Was there anything that kind of came up on your radar as far as Missouri and as far as your business that came up that it was a great idea to be a part of April and to tackle this in Missouri and with the business that you have?

SPEAKER_00:

Mark was instrumental in IRS attacked us, uh, attacked everyone, uh, wanting us to go to three-year makers instead of 18-month makers. So uh Mark went to DC and talked to his representative and was sitting on the corner of his desk and smoking a cigarette with him when there's no smoking. No, right. But uh he was he was the main component in getting us our 18 makers back, which would have changed the our world.

SPEAKER_01:

Congressman Mel Hancock.

SPEAKER_00:

He was a hero. Mark was a hero, and so so was the congressman. Um, but he was from Missouri and he Mark had met him two or three times in one of the owner's office in Lebanon that was an insurance salesman.

SPEAKER_01:

Was there anybody or any maybe a couple or two or three people that kind of mentored you and Mark at that particular point in time when your business is start really starting to come up and starting to grow? And you know, whether it be, you know, hey, keep your money and kind of work from from where you can to going forward, or this is how you rent, or was was there anybody, any mentors, or even along the way?

SPEAKER_00:

Mark was his own mentor. He was bigger than life, and he didn't believe in OPM, he didn't believe in using the bank's money or other people's money. We paid off everything as soon as we could, and that's why we were debt-free.

SPEAKER_01:

That's amazing in itself, because that's not usually how it is right now, and that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00:

Now we have shopping centers and and re model stores and stuff, but that's because he believed in paying the bills first. Uh so he was he he's the one that spoke up in all the meetings and he had his own opinion, his own opinion of of the credit rating and stuff, and he was very boisterous about it.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh when you say credit rating, what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00:

Um, I s maybe I said that wrong. Uh closing credit.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh okay. I understand.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, he's famous for having 2% RSNS, which is red tag, stitch, skips, and stones.

SPEAKER_01:

If there's anything that Aaron has said to me that has shocked me over the years, is like the consistency of low collections. Always. I I think that we have talked about this amongst other people. Uh, I remember he even had uh one of the the breakouts that he did a couple, I think it was a couple years ago, was um run credit like my daddy. Did you remember that? Yep, and he and he said some stuff. And now it's like I've never heard of those numbers on a consistent basis, let alone over the entire year. I mean, I was just once a year. Yeah, once a year. And I was like, we do that once a month. Maybe it would probably be like every week that something would be rolling. Like we'd be happy if we had a couple of just in a month. We'd have, yeah, you know, it's a celebration. He's like, Yeah, we do that once a year. And I was like, oh my God. You know. So you what you're saying is your husband kind of spearheaded that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, yes. And because he he believed that, you know, this is I give you a good TV and you give me a bad check. No. And if you couldn't pay your$20 this week, how was you gonna pay$40 next week? But he's that was very kind and brought it back and marked it. And if you come back next week, then you got all your credit and everything was fine. It was just an education that we wasn't trying to pick up your unit when you had five payments left. It was never like that. It was trying to increase your uh in increase your credit. And as Mark said when one of his famous sayings was uh if it wasn't for us, they'd be sitting on the floor watching the wall. And I was always impressed that I mean we didn't have a lot of nice stuff personally because we was putting it on the business. But when we did start to to have but built a house and things, our clients still had better product than we did because they got it brand new. You know, they got a 42-inch and we're still watching a 32, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, the innovation, I I think that's one thing that I always credit rent-to-own with is the innovation to be able to look at a situation and figure out how to work your way through that. And with all the legends that I've been able, I've been blessed to be able to talk to, everybody had a different way to do it. Everyone, you know, the the problem was the same, but we've shown five, six, seven different approaches that were extremely successful, but with the idea that it's going to work. Not it might work, it's going to work. And how do we make that happen? Um, and it's so important for that, right? It's so important to make sure that that pushes and we stay pushing on that.

SPEAKER_00:

We're on our third generation of customers. You know, you know, they it's it's cool, but you treat them like people, you treat them, you know, you respect them, you know their names, you know the kids' names, if they're in football, whatever. I don't really want to brag, but we have paid a lot of funeral bills and stuff anonymously, you know, it's just you do what you can to help people. I have uh Operation Fresh Start, which uh is all of our furniture that, you know, maybe has a tear in it that we've repaired that doesn't look real good, or dining room set that has three chairs instead of four. Well, we bring it all back into the warehouse, and then uh battered women that are starting all over again with three kids and no education, and we'll fill up their apartment, whatever they need. Wow. Um, and also if you have a fire, you you go and get what from what you can from your family and stuff, and when you get an apartment or house and you still need this or that or something else, then we'll just give it to you. We s we support uh Project 360, which is teenage kids that are couch surfing and don't have a real address due to their parents being silly or in jail or whatever. And that stuff like that when you're just writing a check, that's not anonymously. But we really do support children, the schools, uh food banks. I remembered one year that I I raised personally over 10,000 pounds of food. Oh, wow. I went around and got the best deals I could to make my money spread. And we fed 700 families that year. Wow. And all of the people at corporate were so excited when you know we was unloading all that food or went and get all the got all that food. But I just did what I did with the furniture vendors. I went and made a deal with them and told them what it was for and got the best deal I could. Maybe tweaked the menu a little bit, you know, it made a bit not.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. You gotta do what you gotta do.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Instead of pumpkin pie, we had cakes and seven up. If you mix a cake mix and a seven up together, you get a cake.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So whatever whatever works. Yeah. So when did Aaron start kind of joining in and then learning and and kind of got to where he is now?

SPEAKER_00:

Aaron started in when he was able to drive. He was uh started in Lebanon, graduated from high school, went to uh Warnsburg, he worked there and as the account rep and would finish his zero his route out. In fact, the manager hated Saturday mornings because there'd be trucks lined up on Saturday morning to bring their product back because they couldn't afford it. And uh then he went to Minnesota. We bought a couple of stores in Minnesota or opened a couple stores in Minnesota. He went to Minnesota for a couple of years, and then he came back as upper management for national. And then Mark got sick probably 10, 11 years ago, and it didn't come out like it was supposed to. So Mark did get a little bit better, but he decided he didn't need to work 70 hours a week. So Aaron took over his job, basically, and um Michelle took over buying and the warehouse and stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

So this is like 2014, 2015, so so to speak.

SPEAKER_00:

And then Mark passed away in 20.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm sorry about that.

SPEAKER_00:

And then I may Aaron became president of national TV about six months ago.

SPEAKER_01:

So what made you decide he's ready?

SPEAKER_00:

Because I I seen times have changed since I've been on the front line, you know, but he was taking better care of his co his uh employees. He wasn't having that many issues. I would listen to him and he would handle it. He's not his dad, but he's he still is strong in his convictions and believes in the product.

SPEAKER_01:

He absolutely does.

SPEAKER_00:

But uh the only thing he really well OPM, but the other only but besides the credit, he he has his own deal, you know. But the times have changed, you know. Employees have changed. You can't, you know, we used to have three-piece suits and it whatever the bank wore, that's what we wore. Well, now the banks are on blue jeans and polos, so our guys are on polos. Um there's visible expressions that are now can be visible when Mark was around there that he was old school, but he's changed it. He's he gives he had he's really good with the employees because he gives them more time off and and uh changes their hours to to fit their needs, and he was ready and he was doing the work because I was doing the farm. So about two years ago, I made him executive vice president, and then six months ago I made him the president. So, but I'm still the CEO and the owner, but he is the president, and he talks to me once in a while, but other than that, it's all him.

SPEAKER_01:

It's good, it's good to go. Yeah, I know he has a tight rein on things for sure.

SPEAKER_00:

He does, he does.

SPEAKER_01:

So, Kathy, what we've kind of talked about this a little bit and we're probably kind of venturing off a little bit here, but you have a lot of ventures outside of rent to own.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

So, so what what do you what do you do? Not because we all know what you guys have going on here, but what what's outside that you do? Well, I didn't say outside, but what other businesses do you have that are not rent to own in the rent-town industry?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, we've had businesses back and forth, but Mark was raised on a dairy farm and he loved farming, but he didn't want dairy cows. So we started with one farm and a few cows, and I have two boys, and the boys would do the chores, and Mark would do the chores on the weekend or whatever. Um, but now and we had a big commercial herd that we would raise and wean and sell, but since he's passed, right before he passed. Past he had this vision of everyone eating the same quality of beef that his family ate. So he wanted to do farm to table. So I have taken that, and that is my passion. Now I never thought I'd start in another man business, but here I am. And we have farm to table. We sell it directly. They're born on the farm, they're raised on the farm, non-GMO, and uh we raise most of our prop, most of our feed, no antibiotics, no uh growth hormones, just as clean as we can get them. We sell them to the consumer uh by the whole half or by the piece. We have a big walk-in. No kidding. And Michelle takes care of that. So we have a lot of people that'll text Michelle or whatever, and the price is going up, so they might come and buy 20 pounds of hamburger. Or you've got uh men that are on the carnivore diet, so they want to know exactly when the new beef comes in so they can get the best choices first. So I I'd have to, I'd have to, when I'm in Missouri, I'd have to stop by you would because I'm you're not supposed to tell how many cows or how many acres, but I I am very substantial in the business.

SPEAKER_01:

Good. Good. So, you know, you've mentioned it a couple times, so I don't want to overlook it, but you have said I have broken into a business where it's male dominated, and I've got to kind of show them that we are on equal level field.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

How has that affected? How many times have you felt like you've had to go in and kind of show it's not, you know, it's not based on the sex, it's based on the the mental capacity to get this done. The the ability to work, how hard I work, you know, how hard I am focused on what it is I need to do to get to the success that I need to get to.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, when I started buying product, oh, 35, 39, probably 35 years ago, it was my job to buy the product. So Mark would go with me. We go to Tupelo or Dallas, and then we started with Tribb and um um April, but we would go to shows or whatever, and we would walk in and I would introduce myself, give them my card, and start lifting up with the furniture and stuff. And they would say two words to me and then turn around and talk to Mark. And Mark say, I'm not the buyer. So they'd say three words to me and turn around and talk to Mark. So that was very hard to bust through that. But after they got to know me, that they knew that I knew what I was doing, and I was very um particular about the product that I purchased, and I broke through that and ended up being on the board of directors of TRIB for 10 years, and I was head of the furniture committee for nine years. In fact, I have been slated the queen of of furniture because that's a moniker. Yeah, because I I would take nothing. And if you wouldn't let me take your dust ruffle off the bottom of your couch and let me see what's the guts was, I wasn't interested. You know, if you can't let me see, I'm not gonna destroy it in the middle of a showroom. Right, absolutely. But if you won't let me see what's in the guts and stuff, and well, it matters.

SPEAKER_01:

It matters, it matters because you have to have a quality product that not only you can sell but service when it needs it.

SPEAKER_00:

So my I did make a name for myself in the furniture industry, so I don't have that problem anymore. Uh I don't have a problem with any rent to own anymore because I've spent 39 years at it, but now I'm doing it again. I do have a very good farm manager, and he's very, you know, interested, but still they look at me and like, what do you know about a cow? Well, not much, but I sure can read and I'm learning it again.

SPEAKER_01:

But you served on both boards though.

SPEAKER_00:

No, Marks Marks served on A Pro.

SPEAKER_01:

Mark served on both.

SPEAKER_00:

Trib was me. In fact, he he threatened to fire me probably two or three times a week because he'd walk in my office and I'd be tr doing trib work. And he said, Trib don't pay you. But I believed that the trib industry had uh put faith in me, and if they had a problem, I want to take care of it, whether you had one store or a hundred stores. I really believed in my job and in the furniture industry.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, if you're talking about that long a tenureship, you must have been doing something right.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So what made you decide to step away from that?

SPEAKER_00:

We become empty nesters and we were supposed and it it was just time for somebody else. I thought I was going to step away and, you know, maybe work four days a week or whatever that didn't happen, but that was the plan.

SPEAKER_01:

It's it's always it's always like bittersweet, you know? You you spend all this time doing something and you you really learn to love it, but it's like it's time. And most of the time when I say people coming off the board, they just know it's just time.

SPEAKER_00:

It was just time for me to come off the board. Now, do I miss it? Yes. Could I write in my name for the trib board or whatever, or ask Marty Abel if I could join his furniture committee? Yeah. And they would probably enter it.

SPEAKER_01:

But I'm sure. I'm sure they would.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but no, it's time for me to do something else.

SPEAKER_01:

Let me ask you a question.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

You've you've you and your husband have served on the boards, you've seen generational, you've seen from the late 80s to now at 2025. What would you say is something that you've seen that you you would say there is concern or you should watch out for this in the coming future, based on the ebbs and flows of what's been going on, and say, you know what, in the future, this is probably something that should be something that we should look after, be concerned about, or just keep an eye on.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, you're gonna have to keep an eye on the employees because they're different generation and they're making twice as much money, but they're still doing about the same work and they have a different mindset. Uh and also this the tariffs, which we're not gonna get into politics, but these tariffs are hitting our furniture pretty hard and some of our other stuff pretty hard. So it's gonna change the demographics of what our clients can afford. They're gonna go back to basics, you know, because the food prices are going so high, rental price uh rent house rents going high, and they're not gonna be able to afford everything they want anymore. So you're gonna have to pay more attention back to basic core needs instead of some of the fancy stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, right. I completely agree. Was there ever a time in your career spanning 39 years where you know we've we we're gonna kind of mention it a little bit again, but you you know, being a female in the industry, you had to make your mark. Was there ever a time where it didn't just benefit you to be equal, but being who you were actually benefited the situation?

SPEAKER_00:

A couple of times, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Is that for a different podcast?

SPEAKER_00:

No, yeah, it's a different podcast. Um I've scared some vendors before when they would get me to a place where I'm usually very controlled and start talking soft and and deliberately, they know they're in trouble. But I have pounded the table before and stuff, and I always act like a lady, I think. But uh I have when I was upset, especially with the vendor, uh they knew it.

SPEAKER_01:

Just to remind them. Yeah. We we are definitely on level playing fields. Forget who you're talking to.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you know how much power I really had? I didn't mean that.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you really do you really know? I love it. What was what was probably a difficult time in the industry that you remember that you can say, you know what, I saw this coming. This was a this I wouldn't say a scare, but you know, it was on the radar and it did kind of change the way we did things, but we happened to manage to go through it and what it took to get through it.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, we've already spoken about it, but our warehouse fire almost put us down. Um, it would have put most people down, but uh we managed to to get through it with the help of our vendors and and things.

SPEAKER_01:

I remember you did say something earlier in the groom about the IRS.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yes, the IRS. Uh they were gonna put us on three-year makers, which means we had to to uh depreciate our product for three years. Well, back then most product paid out in 18 months.

SPEAKER_01:

So at the end of the turn.

SPEAKER_00:

You would have to still be paying off stuff that you're not getting money on.

SPEAKER_01:

Correct.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, it would have completely changed the the changed.

SPEAKER_01:

You're talking about 18 months on three years, you would have had a 50% book value at the end of every single agreement that full turned. Oh gosh, that would have been terrible.

SPEAKER_00:

It was, and it was a very big deal, and it was just funny, not funny, but um we just had Mark had was old school.

SPEAKER_01:

He just went down and told him exactly how it was and um wasn't scared of anybody, and then but this was the time that you guys went to the with April the advocacy or whatever to go to the Capitol and say it was gonna this is not this is not gonna be going to devastate us.

SPEAKER_00:

Mark I didn't say wouldn't say single-handedly, but he's the one that got the main champion on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

He led that charge. It's I the tone I can keep on getting from it, Mark, is he was he was not a follower at all. No, he was a leader or a trailblazer.

SPEAKER_00:

Apro was scared to death he was gonna say something wrong or you know, say a cuss word, or you know, do something else. But that's how he took the thing. He didn't put on airs. He just went in there and he knew the guy. He was from our area, and he believed in us and he believed in what we did and believed that we wasn't ripping off anybody.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And made it and made a huge life out of it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And it made it so everyone could still uh operate because it would have been, it would have hit your bottom line so hard. And I so many people would not have made it.

SPEAKER_01:

I know that you said earlier there was a huge misconception about rent to own and that you had to really kind of go through the agreement and kind of discuss it and kind of you know get people to understand where we are, where we're going, what their role is in their agreement and what our role is in that agreement. Do you feel like that moniker still happens today?

SPEAKER_00:

It does.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you feel like like it hasn't changed much or has it changed?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, it's changed a lot, but we still have a shadow over us. Like if uh a middle class person uh loses a job or you know has spent all doesn't have any savings and the refrigerator goes out, they really don't want a rent-to-owned store coming into their fancy neighborhood, delivered them a refrigerator. So we still have a shadow sometimes. But we also have gained the respect from a lot of people. I have back when um Nintendos, back when Nintendos had first come out, uh I was in a store and I was for some reason I was there by myself. I don't know what, but I was by myself, and this customer came in and it had been a lifetime customer, and he wanted a Nintendo. I said, I'm sorry, I'm I don't have any right now. I said, but you can just go down to Walmart, you know, it's four doors down and just buy one. You've got a hundred dollar bill, that'll buy it. He says, When I didn't have any money, National gave me what I needed. Now I'm going to have National give me what I want. I left him in the store. I walked down to Walmart with his$100 bill, bought the Nintendo, came back to the store, wrote up the agreement, and he still owed me$40.

SPEAKER_01:

That's commitment.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

That's commitment. But then that speaks to the way you've been able to do business for the last 40 years.

SPEAKER_00:

They come to us, and and now sometimes, you know, like their tax return or they have money or what, they're going to come to us first. But the upper people, because our set is National TV sales and rental, if we had to depend on our friends and family and stuff to make a living selling product, we wouldn't make it.

SPEAKER_01:

Going into something like this, where we're doing research, we're going back, we're talking to the legends, we're kind of getting the stories from the beginning and kind of moving forward. What's some of the things let's let's narrow it down. What's something that you would say you want to be remembered for?

SPEAKER_00:

I want to be remembered for my um what I did for Trib. I'm very proud of my furniture and my furniture thing. And I want to be remembered also for my giving and helping. You can call me anytime, I answer any question because I don't have any secrets as far as that goes. So I'm approachable and I'm generous, uh, whether it be what uh the charitable conv charitable or something we're doing at Trib or something in my home town. I just want to be remembered for a person that that you know took family, work I'm sorry, God, family, and work in that order, and I don't I do my best at all of them, and I want to be remembered for being a nice person.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

And the queen of queen and furniture.

SPEAKER_01:

Going into the end of this, if you had some words of advice, it's kind of hard. I wouldn't say hard, but it's different for you because you already have a successor. But let's say somebody's coming to you and they say, Kathy, I'm I'm I'm gonna open a store. I believe in the rent home industry, I'm not as tenured as you are, don't have as experienced as you are. If there was something that you can give me, a bit of advice, a word say statement that would kind of sum up what you think would give me the most benefit, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00:

Don't live beyond your means. If you open up a store and you think you're the manager and you're the boss and you can start taking two-week vacation here and two-week vacation here and getting off at noon, uh, that's not that's not what an owner does. If you want a successful business, you have to put in the time. Now with electronics now, like just like uh Aaron doesn't have to spend 70 hours a week behind his desk, but he has to answer his phone 70 hours a week. And the ones that have taken the fancy trips and bought the fancy cars and stuff, some of them 39 years later still owe money. And you know, they still they still got you know six stores or whatever. And if they hit a speed bump, they don't have any back to do it. If I hit a speed bump, like uh the epidemic, it yeah, we had to change what we did. We had to take payments through the door and couldn't deliver stuff into houses, and we adapted, but it didn't put us down. You know, you what no one was made to come to work, but someone always did, and you just open up the door or they drop it through and you give them a receipt. We what I mean we just figured out ways to make it happen. And then the last hour of the day, then you uh cleaned everything and and it's you just make it happen.

SPEAKER_01:

So I'm curious. Again, coming to the end of this, I did want to ask one more question.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Are there any more store openings in the future? Are we expanding?

SPEAKER_00:

I'm sure we are. I'm sure we are.

SPEAKER_01:

We see growth.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. Well, that's good to hear because there's so much coming on in the next few years that it's just good to hear that we're still, you know, we're still thinking we have a future out there, you know, regardless of what's going on.

SPEAKER_00:

And there's still areas. Uh we have purchased many stores where we they come into one of our towns and try to compete against us, and we end up buying them and probably happen again.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that's what happens when you're debt-free and you know how to run your company.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. When your money's green and you know, when an opportunity comes up, whether it might just be a perfect place, you never know when something opportunity is going to come up, whether it be to purchase the building and put a story in it, or just rent the building and put a story in it. We have the personnel and the money that we can take advantage should something come up.

SPEAKER_01:

That's where you want to be. Kathy Windsor, everybody, we do appreciate that you stop by and talk to us. These legend discussions are so important to kind of get a history. That's what this season is all about. We are doing something with Apro. We are partnering together to get all this legend information to you. So we appreciate you guys listening to the show. Kathy, I appreciate you being here. Guys, if you have any questions, please hit me up at the show. It's Pete at the RTO Show Podcast.com. You can email me there. You can hit us on the DMs for Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and now we got you on YouTube. This is where you're going to be seeing this at. If you have any questions, please see us on there. Don't forget to go to the website at the rtoshowpodcast.com and get a shirt or something else. And if you have any questions for Kathy, please feel free to email me at me and I will I will pass it along. And I'll answer. And we'll throw them back on the on the on the on social media or on the sites. But we do appreciate you guys sticking with us today. It's been really great to have this conversation to kind of sit down with you. In case anybody doesn't know, it's my first time meeting Kathy. So I was just excited to kind of have that conversation and kind of dig back deep into the Windsor's and how they got here. So it's it's really exciting for me. But I appreciate you being here. And I will tell you guys as always, thank you. But get your collections low to get your sales high. Have a great one.

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Pete Shau

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