The RTO Show "Let's talk Rent to Own"

Legend: Shannon and Cynthia Baber-Strunk

• Pete Shau • Season 7 • Episode 3

Share episode

Send us a text

A customer says, “I’ll never own the laundromat,” and everything changes. That moment turned rent-to-own from a product on a shelf into a service with purpose for Shannon and Cynthia Baber Strunk—two industry legends who built, defended, and evolved RTO over four decades. We trace their path from Firestone showrooms to 50 stores, the hard lessons of a tire-and-wheel experiment, and the surprise breakthrough of early cell phones, starting with bag phones in the 90s.

We open up about the years when regulation threatened the model and how advocacy became the strategy. Shannon and Cynthia helped shape state laws, led within APRO, and visited Washington more than twenty times to educate lawmakers on how the RTO transaction actually works and why constituents choose it. You’ll hear candid insights on the state-vs-federal balance, why complacency is dangerous, and what message resonates in today’s DC: clear explanation over alarm, customer outcomes over abstractions.

Behind the scenes, technology was the quiet multiplier. Moving from posting cards to modern software transformed reporting, policy decisions, and forecasting. That data discipline now powers their RNR Tire Express focus, where six-month same-as-cash and purchase options require both operational savvy and regulatory awareness. They also share the blueprint for succession done right: start your next leaders at the bottom, insist on real accountability, and set bold forecasts you actually believe your people can hit.

If you care about rent-to-own growth, small-market strategy, industry advocacy, or succession planning, this story is a masterclass in building something durable without losing the customer-first soul. Subscribe, share with a colleague who needs the spark, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway—what should RTO teach lawmakers next?

APRO
Association of Progressive Rental Organizations

Support the show

www.TheRTOshowPodcast.com For swag and information

Pete@thertoshowpodcast.com

Facebook - The RTO Show

Instagram - the_rto_show

Linkedin - The RTO Show

Youtube - The RTO Show Podcast

SPEAKER_01:

Hey everybody, welcome to the RTO Show podcast. Today, we're going through our Legends series, and thank God we have a couple of Legends this time. Not just one. We actually ended up with two. And guys, I don't know if you know who they are, but I'm glad that they're here because if you haven't heard, they've probably done some stuff in the last 40 years that has affected your RTO experience, including mine. I mean, you guys have done a lot, not only with APRO, but the businesses that you've run and the peoples and the lives that you've touched. So, together with APRO, we wanted to have a conversation with these guys and kind of pick their brain and see exactly what you guys have done and how did you get here in that story, that road that led us to exactly where we are today. So, right now I'm sitting with Shannon and Cynthia Baber Strunk. Now, I just found out, like literally a couple of minutes ago, that both have achieved a lifetime achievement awards. Now, I might think about a lifetime achievement award. I think the dedication and the hard road that it takes to get there because it's never easy, right? Nobody gets a lifetime achievement award just because they showed up every year.

SPEAKER_02:

It means old people.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, you know, just the things that you go through and how you learn, how you succeed, how you how you do the best with what you had at that point in time. And when they see that achievement, they say, What, you know what? These people deserve to be recognized. It just so happens that we have a husband and wife doing it, right? So tell me about yourself a little bit. So right now, uh of Babyrus Trunk Enterprises.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

So I'm seeing 40 plus year member in April, board of directors between 99 and 2007, so almost a 10-year stretch there. Um, president and then April president for two years, and then your president and been a more board member, and a 20-plus allege con attendee. Or is it trib?

SPEAKER_00:

President of Trib.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so what we want to do is you guys start business. What made you guys decide rent to own is where I wanted to go?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I I actually started different than Cynthia. I was an employee hired by the company that we now own, Babers Inc. I came in as an account manager, started my way as an account manager and built up through the ranks. Um, I when I started with the company, I was with the company maybe two weeks and decided I wasn't gonna stick around long. That I wasn't gonna I wasn't gonna be with the company long at all. Um I didn't understand the product. I didn't understand what rent own was. I I grew up in a very different life. And so it wasn't until I got educated about what rent own really was that I began to understand the value. I began to understand how good that product was and how many people needed it, that I it it had an appeal to me. That changed. You know, I went to a customer's house and I went to, I was an account manager, started as account manager, and I went to go pick up a washer and dryer from a lady I was account manager, she wasn't paying on the account and I couldn't get her to pay on it. And she looked me in the face and she said, point blank, I'll never own the laundromat. You're not getting it. And that that just shook me because I didn't understand. I didn't view it that way. I just thought it was a product. I didn't realize that the service of the RTO was actually the product. And so it changed the way I looked at the transaction, changed the way that I looked at our customers, just the whole process changed. And I worked for that customer and she caught it back up and everything. It was fine. But but I was out there to pick it up and it changed everything. So once that process started and I understood the value of what rent to own offered, then it started interesting me, and then I started proceeded proceeding and I moved up the ranks.

SPEAKER_01:

How did you get into it?

SPEAKER_00:

Family.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Um my late husband uh and his father opened our first uh rent to own store in Pascagoula, Mississippi. And it was early on. It happened because we had Firestone stores, three of them, and they were um do did well. And then suddenly the economy really dropped. And we were uh not nearly we were not doing nearly so well as we had.

SPEAKER_01:

When you when you say the economy, what what year was was with this around?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh between 2000 uh 1979 and and 80.

SPEAKER_02:

But that was back when the Firestone store sold appliances. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm just thinking of tires.

SPEAKER_02:

Right, right. So they were selling appliances. They had a whole full range of stuff that they sold. Oh so when the economy was going south, they were suffering in the Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, all right. So I understand a little bit more. I was okay.

SPEAKER_00:

And so we uh we had three, three, of course, that uh we didn't know what to do with, and a friend uh suggested that we look at went to own. And we had never have heard of it, and Mr. Uh Baber, my father-in-law, uh said, we're gonna give it a try. So we added appliances and uh televisions to our showroom of the um Firstone stores, and that's how we started. And my mother-in-law uh asked him one day, well, how's the new business going? And he said, I don't know, but we're doing a lot of it.

SPEAKER_01:

I actually really like that idea. So you've had this ability to go through in different ways. You started in the business, you kind of started a little bit differently, the bumps and bruises in the road. What were some of the early challenges? Because you said that you know you weren't initially in rent to own, but we kind of got there. And it sounded like it was going very well. There was a little bit of understanding, um, a little bit of an onboard process of going, oh, wait a minute, this works differently than I expected. What were some of the early trials and tribulations of that time period that you guys had to face that was really like this is almost a breaking moment here where we we really got to take a look at what we're doing to continue on? And and we're we're so when did you start?

SPEAKER_02:

I started in 1987, March of '97.

SPEAKER_01:

So I'm 87. So let's start with you then. Because you're you're about eight, eight years earlier. Was there something at that point in time that you said, you know, hey, this was something that we had to get through, or something that your font your family experienced that, you know, if we don't make that change, like you said, you kind of added um the TVs and and and the other things. When do you remember when that was?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh, that was in uh 1980, the beginning of 1980. And it was um it went well. We grew quickly to 17 went-to-owned stores. Wow. At that point, we we left, we didn't leave, we they were still opened, but we uh our emphasis became the um RTO stores. We were doing very well. I was not involved at all, except I I designed our first logo, and I um what else did I do? Oh, I did policy and procedure management.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that's the backbone. That's the backbone of what we do.

SPEAKER_00:

And those were the only things I did because I was a biology teacher. Oh, okay. And so I wasn't really interested in all of this.

SPEAKER_01:

Everything that we're doing here.

SPEAKER_00:

And then my late husband was killed in an airplane accident. I'm sorry to hear that. And so it thrust me into a life that I did not know anything about.

SPEAKER_02:

But I but she meant me.

SPEAKER_00:

So I had I had been my late husband's uh assistant um part you know, part-time, and it was it it was very hard. But my late husband had told me to trust Shannon that he was a good man.

SPEAKER_02:

I didn't I don't think he meant marry me anyway. There was some foresight, but he wasn't sure what it was.

SPEAKER_00:

No. And so uh he he did computers well, and so he came back from the area that he was managing to our home office on the Gulf Coast, and we have had a wonderful time together since then in the rent-to-owned industry.

SPEAKER_01:

So 87, you're coming in, you're kind of learning how we do things, how the customers are, the interactions, how important we might be to people who just really don't understand um life. They're kind of getting through it and they're like, I need somebody to help me. I don't have credit, I need to get these things taken care of, and I need to make sure that I go someplace. Well, you know, help me out. It's I get service, I get delivery, I get all that included. What when did you go into the management side of it where you started really kind of seeing the industry from a different point of view?

SPEAKER_02:

Um, I was I was made a manager just three months later. Um, and moved up to Tuscaloosa, Alabama, moved up, moved away from the Gulf Coast up to a store, became a store manager, and then went through the ranks of, we called them, we didn't call them district managers, we called them supervisors, moved up through the ranks in the company.

SPEAKER_01:

So, what were some of the earlier trials and tribulations that you experienced coming into this business? Because there is a there's a time frame, and I think we've kind of done a lot to change it. But earlier on, late 80s, early 90s, there was a moniker kind of over-rent to own, like, oh, you know, we're kind of taking advantage of a customer that really can't afford to not be taken advantage. They need these products, so of course we go in and then we we supplement with these products, but they they have this and they have that. Well, you're paying a little bit more, and you know, there's all these ideas. Well, you know, you have the ability to return it. Well, they're trying to come after us. What were some of the earlier things that you came across? You said, I really I gotta change this mindset of what's going on.

SPEAKER_02:

Those experiences in early 90s for me really is what caused me to get very active in the industry because I knew what it was like, but I I had customers and I knew the value that it provided for the customers and the relationships that we built, and I knew what the customers were doing. I mean, so what my personal experience was was so different from what I was reading or hearing elsewhere. And so I didn't like that. And so, from my perspective, it was an easy transition to get involved because I wanted to tell a different story.

SPEAKER_01:

And so when did, and this might be a different time frame, but when did you guys get involved with Apro? Because you know, it's it's not only the legal advocacy, but it's a mouthpiece for rent-to-owned to say, we're doing the right thing, not only by you, but by us, trying to make sure that the regulation stays favorable, making sure that we can take care of you the way we say we're gonna take care of you, but not in a credit transaction, because honestly, that is a whole nother ball game. That's a bag of worms that we're not getting into. We want to make sure that we take care of our customer. When did that advocacy start?

SPEAKER_02:

Baber started when April, I mean, Baber started uh April when April started. So we were one of the one of the early members of April. So we've been on as soon as as soon as it was available to do. My my experience with April occurred in I'll I'll say in 89, started in 87, it was probably 89, when I went to Birmingham to a industry meeting, and Ed Wynn was leading the meeting. He was it was a legislative, I mean it was a uh a legal session, and that's when I really started. First of all, I loved Ed Wynn. He was awesome, and I really appreciated the message he was giving in. But but but at that time it was a scare message. You know, it was a worry about the the industry and what whether the industry was gonna exist. And so I really got involved. That's what caused me to get involved in the industry, was Ed Wynne.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, it's funny. I've done this is now our third Legends podcast, uh, aside from the Ken Butler. Everybody mentions Ed Wynne. He he is a name that constantly comes up. I love talking to him. Um, he's he is he's just no nonsense. He just he's he's so full of information. I mean, Edwin's like a walking encyclopedia of rent-to-owned legal matters. Um, but everybody mentions Edwin. As a matter of fact, Wayland was just talking about that not that long ago. It was great to great to kind of catch up with him on that. But what do you think that Babers did? What do you think that you guys did that made the rent rent-to-owned transaction through Babers successful? What spin did you guys put on it? That's, you know, this is our claim to the rent-to-owned industry. This is why we're successful, this is why our stores have been able to prosper for all these years.

SPEAKER_02:

We really concentrated on smaller markets where they were underserved. In some cases, they were underserved by anybody providing products that we were not just rent-owned, but sales. We specialized in the smaller markets to take care of the customers.

SPEAKER_00:

And it was a needed business because it allowed people to get product that they had never been able to get before. They just could not afford it. Uh and with the the model that we were using, they could afford it.

SPEAKER_01:

So let me ask you guys a question from recollection. What was a product that you really weren't sure was gonna kind of take off, but you took the chance, you brought it in, and realized this is the this is a next step in where we're going.

SPEAKER_02:

Cell phones. Really? Cell phones. Okay. You know, it was a risk. It was a different, it wasn't, it had other services tied to it. So cell phones was probably, in my memory, cell phones was probably the first item that we brought into the business.

SPEAKER_00:

Um that it was so new. Yeah, cell phones were not uh something that had been a lot around very long.

SPEAKER_02:

We started with some actual bag phones.

SPEAKER_01:

So, okay. Now we're now we're talking. When did you start that? When around what time frame did you bring those in and realize we've got something here?

SPEAKER_00:

I I don't know. It had to be about 90s, late 90s? No, it had 92.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, early 90s.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it had to be 92, 93, 94, somewhere. We we don't actually remember. We remember the product. That's okay. And we remember the cycles that we went through, changing from bag to real to to little to iPhone, you know, went went through the whole gamut.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, you were saying that was something that really worked for us. It kind of took off and took us to a whole different direction that we didn't know before.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Most were successful. There were a few that were weren't, but most were.

SPEAKER_02:

Another product we tried, Cynthia and I uh took, we she told you we started as a Firestone store. And we still had Firestone stores operating, but over time we closed them, changed and turned them into uh baby Baber stores. We had one Firestone left in the company, and Cynthia and I bought that out of the company and turned it into a rent-to-owned tire and wheel company and uh called RideWright. And um, after we'd lost enough significant money, we closed it. But we are now RR franchisees.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I was just talking to uh to Adam Sutton, who is I I love him to death. Uh pulled his family dear, you know, coming from Tampa, whether it would be Slatten, whether it be Larry, you know, and now Adam, um, everything that they've done has just been an amazing to watch RR kind of grow from where it was to where it is now and how many people have invested in that. How many uh RRs do you have now? 17.

SPEAKER_02:

You have 17 R and listen, in 2005, I was the April president. I, you know, the April president gives the Lifetime Achievement Award. That year, is it 2005 or six? I don't remember which year, I gave Larry Sutton the Lifetime Achievement Award because of what he had done. He'd already built a company and now he's working on his second company. And so yeah, very much so.

SPEAKER_01:

So I'm I'm a little side note, I'm gonna go see Adam, right? So I'm at I'm at the RR uh offices and I want to go to see Adam. And you know, there's there's a lot of there's a lot of things that come beforehand. I gotta meet the secretary, I've got to meet the officer. Finally get into the office. I'm going to the office. And who do I see there as I walk in? And it's Larry and Adam having a conversation. I was like, man, uh, you know, it was just it was really cool to see. Yeah. You know, and uh, of course, obviously I was like, you know, Larry, I'm gonna see you soon because I've got to have a conversation with you on the on the Legends series. But just the things that he's been able to accomplish and do, you know, just like yourselves, it's it's the things that you kind of look back and go, these are the people that have helped make the industry what it is today. Some of the molds that were broken, some of the ideas that were had, or the longevity are just saying, you know what, we're not gonna give up. And you said, I mean, you had to ride right, didn't go that way, and now you own 17 R and R locations, which I'm guessing through the model that they've had and been able to share with you, is doing very well. Oh, yeah, we we love that business. Love it. It's it's it's actually a great business. So what do you think was the most difficult time for you together coming through this? Was it the 2005 time? Did it hit earlier than that? Was there a was there a or I should say 2007, I'm excuse me, um, when it went, you know, when the economy turned down, or was there something different where it hit kind of rent to own and there was a thought like, man, this is this is getting hard?

SPEAKER_02:

It was the ear well, I'm not gonna say it was hard. It was the early 90s where we felt the pressure or threat of government intrusion where the government may shut us down, and you know, it was during that period of time we'd go to seminars and get the bejeebers scared out of us. Um, it was the early part. We had Cynthia and I bought the company in 1993, bought Babers from the rest of the family members in 1993. And that was around the time we started having trouble. So we had a lot at risk. And so it was the earlier years where the transaction was um at risk that caused us the most grief. But as far as business, business was we've always thought that business was good or bad, and if it was bad, it's because of leadership. It wasn't because of the model or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01:

And then out of that, would you say that making it through those times when you're saying there's somebody out there, there's an entity out there, and the government is a big entity looking to really kind of take away our bread and butter, what we do every single day for our community, for our people, for the people that work for us on the other side of that. How was that experience to get through it and go, you know what, we're here. We made it through.

SPEAKER_00:

It was uh an unusual time. You felt um nervous that your company may not be there because there were consumer advocates that did not understand the business at all. And at that time, I can't remember when Shannon and I were we were on the on the board of April, he was president, I was uh on on the board, but at different times. And the time that I was in as on the board, I I just remember that it was so important to let the uh people of rent to own to know what could be facing them if we didn't get to know our legislators and protect our business, you know, trying tell our uh legislators uh what rent to own was, tell our story, let them understand how important it was. And um so w Shannon and I worked long and hard on on that. And um and that's one thing that I worry about is that we have become become complacent and don't understand that with new Congress taking over each year, they forget what happened back then.

SPEAKER_02:

We got married in 1993 and we had 15 or 17 stars, I don't really remember how many. But you know, it was shortly thereafter that we were concerned about uh the transaction and and so our growth we didn't really open any stores to speak of. But the moment that we felt comfortable, we uh expanded and we ended up with up to fifty, we ended up with 50 stores. So we felt comfortable enough to keep investing and keep opening stores to answer your question.

SPEAKER_01:

So going back to what you were saying, because you you're invested, invested so much that you keep on growing and doing this, and you joined April at the 40 40 years or 44 years, whatever it is, but it's been a long time. How many times have you gone to DC? I know I remember last time we were at DC, last year there was like this count of how many people have gone, so many.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know, 20 something. I mean, we we we made it a pledge to ourselves that we would never miss it. That we would go, you know, there was a short period of time in the last five, six years. We've been the last two, but where we stopped, but we've been 20 plus times.

SPEAKER_00:

Both of us, he's been talking about the legislative conference, right?

SPEAKER_02:

And when I was president, we would go, gosh, I bet we went 15 times that year to DC. And we but the legislative conference, I don't really remember the number, 20 something times maybe.

SPEAKER_01:

So over 20 different years of visiting the halls of DC and kind of reminding them what it is that we do and how we do we enjoyed it. We enjoyed telling our story. Absolutely. So when you're there, when you're there, because now you're the veterans now. We we we're going there. What kind of message are you letting the legislative know? When you go to visit, you're saying, This is my industry, this is what we do, this is how we are. What kind of message are you telling them when you get in there and you finally have that chance to sit down and just have that conversation?

SPEAKER_02:

We usually sit down and first off, right off the bat, try to figure out where this person is we're talking to. Where are they in the scale in terms of understanding our transaction? We either explain the transaction or we make sure that they understand, if they know the transaction, that that our customers are valuable, that our customers like our product, like our transaction, and we need to keep that product to them. It's it's a very different uh DC today is very different than what it used to be. We used to tell a story to keep stay in business. Now we tell a story just to explain what the transaction is to the people that we're talking to so they understand it. It's not the urgency and the fear isn't there. Um, it is really just an education, making sure that they understand what our transaction is and that their constituents use it.

SPEAKER_01:

It's it's one of those things that I've just started getting into. So my this last year was my second year. And uh thank God that I get to go in with people such as yourself who were able to mentor me and say, hey, you know, Pete, just kind of stand right there and just figure it out. And in, you know, in the process, we do get to speak. You know, there's everybody has a story to tell because you know, a lot of things happen in different ways. The way I see one story, and we could all be in the same area, you might see it completely differently. So we we kind of share our story and what we've been through and what we've seen. And um, you know, it's just amazing to see somebody's experience throughout the years and have that confidence to talk to people that I didn't think I would ever see, you know, and sit in the same room with the people that I see on CNN going, This is a business that I believe in. This is a business that I care about. And there are times, you know, whether it be Henry B. Gonzalez or whether it be we have vendors who just really don't understand what we're doing and we're they're kind of reluctant to get on board with that. Um, and you know, trying to break through those barriers. Was there any one of those times where you had you come across vendors like, I don't understand what you're doing, and I'm just gonna kind of hold off on it until I know better?

SPEAKER_00:

I don't think so. Uh I think that they were always uh They were always trying to sell the product.

SPEAKER_02:

So it didn't matter. It didn't matter.

SPEAKER_00:

Get educated. And they would visit uh their legislators. And uh I I always thought that the vendors were a great asset because that was they were part of the economy, uh and the legislators are always concerned about the economy. And and and so it was it was just a big team working to have people understand our industry and um and and and to know that people that were uh against our industry just hadn't really talked to the customer that was using our product.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, early we Cynthia and our fortunate in that uh early in our business career, we got involved with state and federal government. Cynthia and I started the um Mississippi Rental Dealer Association, now called Alamis, Alabama Mississippi Rental Dealer Association, and we were the ones that took the bill up to Jackson, Mississippi, to get the transaction defined on a state level. So that process was really educational to us. You know, working with the lobbyists, better understanding how it worked, because that was the just a micro it was just a small version of what was happening on the federal level. So we got lucky in early in our career messing with this stuff. And so we had a very different view of these meetings and how it worked in D.C. as well as on the state level.

SPEAKER_00:

And Mississippi uh was one of the first states that we were able to get a rent-to-law, rent-to-own law passed. Okay. And so when we got it passed, uh then you felt comfortable. Um and when we got enough states, uh it seemed that uh the gov the national government began to not be so concerned about it.

SPEAKER_02:

It it actually became a problem. And you know, people would ask us when we told them we have states in 47, we have laws in 47 states. They were like, then why why are you worried about this? Why are you worried about a an a federal bill, a national transaction? And so in some ways, we were so successful at the state levels that caused us some grief on a federal level.

SPEAKER_01:

So he's a little bit different. There's been a lot of people saying we should get that federal law passed so that we can be covered everywhere and all. Uh, and Edwin has always said, you know, it would be great, but number one, it's gonna take a lot. And number two, you might not want the federal government looking at the business the way the state does, because each state is a little bit different. They're a little bit easier to deal with, it's just here, it's not everywhere. When you start getting into the everywhere, you have a lot.

SPEAKER_02:

We had our local congressmen, the the the the some of them were friends of ours, said you need to be careful what you're asking for. That's exactly what he said.

SPEAKER_01:

He said those exact words. He said, you know, you might want to be careful what you asked for. Because if you get that law, you might be in a whole different arena with a lot of different players. And so, you know, it's always those thoughts that how do we get here? You know, how do we do this? You said Mississippi was one of the first few that came on. Um, how active were you guys in in that, or how active were you in that Mississippi law that got that got passed?

SPEAKER_02:

We were the ones that that caused. I mean, I was president at the time of the state association. We were the ones that drove the train.

SPEAKER_01:

What you you were part of a state law that was passed to help regulate rent to own, make it profitable, but make it understandable that we are we are held to a certain you know decorum for our customers, for ourselves, and what we do. That's right. What do you think about this law that's going on in New York right now?

SPEAKER_00:

You always have to worry because uh if you get uh several states that start to change their law, uh make it different, uh sometimes it it can be different in a good way, and other times it can be different in a very bad way.

SPEAKER_02:

There's always fear that you have you have unsavory pieces of uh legislation that goes through in our industry, that it'll go to other states and it'll start becoming something. I mean, I'm not saying that would happen, but you know, New York's kind of wild out there anyway. But but that is the fear to it, is that if it's successful one place, it may be successful else.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I I know that you used a word earlier that really kind of caught me, and that was complacent. Um, and that's one thing that we just can't afford to do right now. Cannot because I agree with you just the same. It only takes one domino, just one, and you'll see the rest change.

SPEAKER_02:

That's right.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's you know, it's one of those situations like I definitely understand why they're concerned because they're concerned about their constituents and don't want to make the Right call. But doing that in it from an uneducated standpoint can really make a problem for the rest. And we're trying to stay out of the federal arena unless we really have to. We're regulated highly in a lot of the states that we're in. And now all of a sudden we could be back in that arena again. And it's one of those we've really got to get together and make sure that we're on top of that so that we can keep on doing business like we have been for years and years and years. So what's coming up? What's coming up next in the industry? What would you say that's coming up next for yourselves, but for the industry as a whole, something that's on the horizon that you're looking at as in the next few years is coming down the pipe, this is the direction we need to go in?

SPEAKER_00:

I think that um we are presently we are on the right path. But if if we are not conscious of every little change that a state may make, uh it could be a problem. And we need to be very careful. I'm so glad to have a program like this because uh I it is a vehicle to get uh the information to our newer members who don't who've never gone through any of these hard times.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it it has been a little while, right? And unfortunately, sometimes uh times in great peace, we forget why we have the peace and the sacrifices that were made by the people ahead of us, such as yourselves kind of going through some of the implementations of that time frame and going, you know, we've got to go through the Henry B. Gonzalez's, we have to go to the state legislator, we have to go to the legal conferences every single year to remind them what we do and how we do it. You know, so saying that that you think that that might be coming up next, to just make sure that we keep a fine-tuned fork on what's going on next.

SPEAKER_02:

You you asked that question, and it's it's hard for me not to think about risks in our business that we'll have to deal with. And so I remember early on when we were talking about the rent-owned transaction and what constitutes rent own and at what point does it become a sale versus rent own? And there's some percentage, some number that was arbitrary. I don't remember what it was. But I look at the I look for the example of the RR transaction. The RR transaction, you know, we offer a six-month same as cash, and 50% of our customers pay off the agreement within six months. So our purchase option, including going all the way to the very end, is probably in the 70 percentile. And I don't know where that changes and says, well, that's really not rent-owned. That's a concern of mine.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, watching and and and and feeding off you guys and just seeing how involved you have been, I am curious who were the who was someone or a few people who were your mentors, people who kind of influenced you, helped you along, gave you that guiding light in a dark tunnel in the beginning, or maybe now that you've kind of relied on, really more so in the beginning, but you know, who was somebody or a few people that kind of really helped you be mentors to you and guided you to where you are today?

SPEAKER_02:

I think both of us will answer this question differently. I I don't know her answer, but for me, there's really a couple people that had a significant um uh uh impact on our business or on my on me, on way business operated. And one of them was Daryl Tissett, um, Mike Tissett's father, and another one is David Blevins. David, those two people we would always saddle up with when we'd go to April conventions or RT or uh legislative conferences and communicate and talk and and you know steal whatever's whatever they're willing to offer out of their head. Um so those there were and there were there were plenty others. I'm sure there are people that I'm forgetting, but but those two people have passed and they come to mind.

SPEAKER_01:

Daryl Tissett and David Blevins. Right, big, big names, big names in the RTR world. How about yourself?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh the same. I was involved with with those those two. Uh Gary Farriman. He started off. He is a favorite.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm telling you, he pops up. I told you know what's funny, and I don't mean to erupt. I apologize. I was talking to Gary the other day, and I said, Gary, I don't think you realize how many people bring your name up in these conversations that you know you're just somebody that they they lean on. And he seemed so shocked. Um not uncommon. It it's actually almost the uncommon part would be not to mention his name. He comes up in so many different levels. And, you know, I was really glad to see him take an award. I'm really glad to know that he's really been that influential. But you know, please carry on. I just wanted you mention Gary because he he has done so many things for this industry, including helping some of our leadership get to where they are, at least get through certain times where you're like, I need some advice. I need something, Gary. Help me out, you know. And he just does a great job.

SPEAKER_00:

He is he's a wonderful man and he's a quiet man. Uh, so I think that may be one reason he doesn't uh come out. I'm gonna get it done. He just has gotten it done quietly.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, listening is a superpower. Yeah. He does it very well. Yeah, he does. I wish I did it better than he does. I am not, I am not doing it as well as he didn't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Great and the ones that Shannon mentioned, you know, that they were just always there and working hard. They were always free advice.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, they're willing to talk to you about anything.

SPEAKER_01:

So going back to early days, we have some of the things we run into and some of the things that we come across, people that have helped us out. But I remember in the late 80s, our point of sale software wasn't all that great, kind of needed a little bit of a revamp. Was there something that you guys got or started using that helped you? I don't want to say 21st century now, but the 20th century that really kind of got the ball rolling. I know high touch was a big thing back then, a certain point in time. What did you guys use and how well did it translate you from, let's say, the early 80s going into the 90s and maybe the 2000s?

SPEAKER_02:

When I started, we didn't have computers. Green bar? We did you have green bar? Was it green bar the strip you're talking about?

SPEAKER_01:

The cards, posting cards? Yeah. Is that what you're talking about? Well, the green bar that we had would come out on a dot matrix printer.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02:

We didn't have a computer.

SPEAKER_00:

We hadn't have a computer.

SPEAKER_02:

We had, we had little, we had sheet. Posting cards. Posting. So you used the little carbon strip, you laid the you laid the customer, you go through the card box, find the customer, lay the customer's card down, put the receipt over the top of it, had carbon on the back, and you'd write down their receipt and it would post. It's called a posting card. As a matter of fact, if you talk to old, older, not old, but if you talk to older rent-to-owned people, people who have been in the industry a long time, they used the term card close. Are you familiar with that? I still use card clothes.

SPEAKER_01:

I use my guys look at me all the time. Do you know why?

SPEAKER_02:

You would take the cards and the ones that were late, you'd put over here, and here were the ones and you buy them. That's exactly right. Card clothes. So um that when I started, that's what we had. We didn't have computers.

SPEAKER_00:

But that was shortly after we did get computers.

SPEAKER_02:

No, we didn't get computers. Yeah, you're talking about computers came shortly after I got here. Yeah. Yeah. So we started getting into computers in the 80 in 89. In 89, we started putting computers in our tracks, was the software we used. And so it changed, of course, it changed the way we did the business. And um we, you know, we we used that software, some old software. We used that software for years. And when we moved to Versorant, of course, that process was very painful, but when moved to Berserrent, it that change changed the way we operated. It became so much easier for a manager to become to do a manager, be a manager and less work for them. And um, and the home office data that we collected from it was invaluable. So that was a the the changing of that software to something that was more centralized was a huge change for us. Before that, uh we didn't have consolidated info worth a flip.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you think that that transition, the amount of knowledge, the amount of availability to speak kind of overlook your business, was that a transitional point where you were able to grow because of that?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, we went through for us, it was a very painful process to change software. We didn't do it well. But once we got past it three years later or so, then the answer to your question is yes. We changed the way we operated. It changed, caused us enough, it gave us the ability to change lots of processes and policies on the way we operated and we could see the results of it.

SPEAKER_01:

And it makes it so much easier to be able to go in and and and kind of forecast the next few months when you have the data coming from from behind.

SPEAKER_02:

That's right. So yeah, you didn't have to wait until you talk to somebody. You came in the next morning and it was there. And now it's there.

SPEAKER_01:

It was there, you can pull it off the printer and kind of look at it or get it in your emails. So as we go through things like this, where we sit down and we talk to people just as yourselves who have been in this industry for years, almost generationally at some point. Do you have anybody that's full filling in those blanks? Do you have children that are going to be a part of this industry?

SPEAKER_02:

All three children uh work for the company.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. All right. So then you've got three that are uh do they plan on taking over at some point in time? They do.

SPEAKER_02:

They plan on staying. When we're dead and gone, they plan on staying working for the company.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right. They are, they are in fact, he was he was ill not too long ago, and we were both had to be out of the office for a long time, and we were worried about how they were going to do, and they did beautifully.

SPEAKER_01:

They showed up.

SPEAKER_00:

They they were there, and they they would meet every Friday, uh, have breakfast and discuss how they were gonna get through that.

SPEAKER_02:

When we hired them, they knew it was a real job and that they had to show up every day and they had to perform, had to perform, or they wouldn't have a job.

SPEAKER_01:

They didn't have a cushion job. So what would you say? And I know they're family, so it's it's kind of like a little bit of a different thing here, but what would you say to the next management, whether it be family or not, that's coming around a corner and taking up some of the positions that we have? We have a lot of 40-year legends that are kind of get to that point where it's, I need to pass this torch. I might not be out of it altogether, but it's that time where I can pass a torch to somebody else. You know, Gary Ferriman, uh, obviously one that we're talking about, Mike Tissett from Daryl, you know, one of the things that we talk about. You know, when you when you look at these situations, what is something that you would say from yourselves and go, Shannon Cynthia think that if you know this or if you follow this or if you do this, this is the best advice that I think we can give you to give you as much success for the next 20 or 30 or 40 years that you do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Forecast positively and believe in your people. Believe your people can do what you're forecasting. I mean, the the when I look at the variances in the businesses and the models, when somebody is conservative and fearful, that business doesn't grow anywhere close to when somebody somebody puts their two cents out there and says, we're gonna do this, and then they put actions in place to achieve that. That is the single most important part of business in my book.

SPEAKER_00:

I think the hardest thing is if you were to force them and just push them to take over a company that they really don't want to. But ours all love it. Some of them started off as uh they would file papers and clean bathrooms.

SPEAKER_02:

I was gonna say they all went through this life of cleaning bathrooms.

SPEAKER_00:

So it was uh w we started them out with the worst jobs so that they would appreciate uh what had it had built into.

SPEAKER_01:

To make sure you don't get into this and not really love it organically. That's right. Absolutely. I completely agree. So going into the end, going into rounding all this up, you know, something that April wants to know, I want to know. I'm curious. We can't always mold our the way that people have looked at us, right? The legacy that we left. It's really done by what we did and then looked at by the people around us, right? They are gonna tell us what they think of the legacy that we left. What do you think somebody's gonna say about the Baby Strunk legacy as you guys have gotten to a point where you got the children involved? At some point in time, I would imagine that they're gonna take over. And what is a legacy that you want to pass on or or say that you feel like you've done to pass on?

SPEAKER_02:

I really hope that we really concentrated on the customer first and then the employee next, because that cycle is what keeps that business thriving. And we do. We concentrate very heavily on a great customer experience, but our employees are paramount to us. Think of us as a reverse triangle. Cynthia and I are at the bottom. Turn the triangle over, we're at the bottom. And so I we put our employees above us in a heartbeat, and we we actually do. So I'm hoping that's the way they viewed it, and that they didn't view it any other way.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh, they should always remember that the customer is what uh makes your company continue.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, they're the one, they're the one employee that can fire us all. That's right. That's right. You know, that's some sense to say that's been coming up lately, and it and it God knows it's true. I really appreciate you guys being here. Guys, I appreciate you watching. So we got Cynthia Baber Strunk, we got Shannon Strunk, legends in the business over 40 years, and just about everything they can do from starting the business to actually being advocates in APRO and kind of helping us get to where we are, whether it be legally or financially, with 17 RRs. And how many other businesses do you have? How many stores do you have all together?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, we we we sold the Baber stores. So you sold them? Sold them in 2019.

SPEAKER_00:

They're still a part of APRO.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's just the is this the RR stores now?

SPEAKER_02:

Just R's. We have some other businesses, but we've sold those. We're concentrating 100% of our effort now on RR.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I'm not going to argue because red zone is what we do. That's right. We really appreciate them being here. We appreciate you guys watching. I'm so glad that you guys were here to be able to share this with me. Listen, if you guys have any questions, please hit up the show at pet at the rtoshowpodcast.com. Ask me anything you like, including anything for them. And if it's good, I will make sure that they get an answer for you. Make sure that you follow us on Facebook and Instagram, LinkedIn, and now YouTube where you can see this. So make sure you subscribe. Hit us up on the podcast and the DMs. Guys, I'm really, really appreciate that you've been here. I am so glad that you were able to take part in the Legends series because you guys together are unique, as in You're Married and Legends Together, both presidents, both done a great job for this industry. And I will tell you guys, I really, really, really appreciate you being here. I really appreciate you being part of this. And I will tell you guys, as always, make sure you get your collections low to get your sales high. Have a great one.

Head Shot

Pete Shau

Host