Legend: Dan Fisher of Majik Rent to Own

A family video store with 400 movies. A heavy VCR lugged home for the weekend. An $800 camcorder bought on a personal credit card so a loyal customer wouldn’t be let down. That’s where Dan Fisher’s rent-to-own story begins—and how a small experiment grew into a durable, customer-first brand with a culture people talk about.

We walk through the inflection points that define real growth: discovering APRO after years of improvising, moving from Sam’s Club buys to vendor partnerships like GE Appliances, and opening the first standalone rent-to-own store that proved the model. Dan is candid about the messy parts too—how a fourth location in a tough market stretched his capacity, how a rapid jump to thirteen stores exposed leadership gaps, and why a two-day off-site in 2017 became the moment everything clicked. The takeaway is practical: choose systems that let you lead, build habits that keep plans alive, and return to the family values that made customers trust you.

We also unpack the rent-to-own model in plain language for skeptics and supporters alike. Flexibility matters: cancel anytime, no pickup fees, free delivery and setup, repairs covered, and lifetime reinstatement that honors every payment. That’s why multigenerational customers keep coming back. Dan’s mentors—industry mainstays like Shannon Strunk, Gary Ferriman, Mike Tissott, and Lyn Leach—helped him step into advocacy, where he found that most offices simply need the facts. When people hear how RTO expands access with dignity and options, the conversation changes.

If you care about building a resilient business, leading through growing pains, and serving customers with respect, this story delivers the playbook—and the heart behind it. Subscribe, share with a teammate who needs a nudge, and leave a review telling us your biggest leadership turning point.

APRO
Association of Progressive Rental Organizations

Chapters

• 2:11 Welcome And Legend Introduction
• 4:42 From Video Store To VCR Rentals
• 7:47 Early Expansion And Camcorder Bet
• 12:51 First Appliances And Finding Vendors
• 17:41 Joining APRO And Industry Learning
• 22:54 Family Approach And Customer Focus
• 28:15 Growing Pains From 4 To 13 Stores
• 33:58 The 2017 Leadership Turning Point
• 38:24 Mentors, Boards, And Confidence
• 43:05 Advocacy 101 And Hill Visits

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 1:09

Hello, welcome to the Arts Goat Show Podcast. I'm your host, P Shao, and guess what? We're working on the Legends series, and we have another Legend with us today, Dan Fisher from Magic all the way in Pennsylvania. Now, listen, there is so many things I learned from the Legends series going from beginning to end, and some of the people that we've had on here, some of the people we're going to have on here. Dan is one of the greats, been a great help and a good friend of the show. We just want to tell you, Dan, we appreciate that. We appreciate you getting into this series. First off, Dan Fritchard, tell us how are you doing today? How's everything going?

SPEAKER_00: 1:45

I'm doing wonderfully today. And I have to say, Pete, I appreciate you as well. I think I was one of your earliest fans and just really appreciate what you've done for the industry. And I'm just so glad to see you growing and developing and becoming really more integral for the industry. So uh just love seeing your success. So congratulations on that.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04

I appreciate that. In case anybody doesn't know, talking about a legend on a backstory. Dell was one of our very first interviews where we didn't even have the ability to record. We didn't have the word, so we called Dan and he's on his way to work and he's giving us you know the 411 and some of these things. We're running it down, we were jotting it all down to having them on our next podcast. You know, and we're talking, you know, almost three years ago now. So it's crazy how uh I agree with you. We come along and we see we see things on a different avenue in a different light, and the way they've prospered and and come forward. Really, it's been a great ride. I know that somebody is now the president of Apro. Uh, is it president of APRO? Am I saying that right? Yeah, president of the board. So you you you're kind of all over the place now. You're just making it happen everywhere.

SPEAKER_00: 2:48

Yeah, yeah. It's uh it's it's been a wild ride. I I've uh I tell everyone, like serving on the board of of both APRO and and and Trib over the years. Uh I've been on both on and off. And uh both boards are just so uh helpful to me as a business person, where you know, I I I love to give back to the industry, but the thing I've learned is you learn so much contributing to the board that it's been you know, it's been really helpful to me and my business just learning from some of these these you know legends that you talk about on the various boards and and just being up close and personal with them. You just you just learn so much about how you can improve your business. So I enjoy giving back and and anything I can do, I'm I'm happy to help with.

SPEAKER_01: 3:31

There's a lot of tenure on the board. So when you're talking about the board, you're talking about people who have been there for years and years. You add that up, you know, centuries worth of rent to own. Talking about people who have had legendary tales and the length of time in rent to own, when did you first get started at rent-town? Where did your tale start? About what time did you come on to the rent to own scene and start putting your mark on it?

SPEAKER_00: 3:54

Yeah, so when I was in high school, actually, in 1984, my dad bought a very small video store. Uh, and and when I say small, it was literally in a corner hotel room of a of a hotel, uh like a banquet room, and it was it was about the size of your your typical living room with 400 movies in it. So that's what he bought. And then shortly after that, uh so back in those days to rent a movie, most people had to also rent the VCR of a player that played the movies. And there was this um, you know, it was a really uh really big hassle because you're lugging this big heavy VCR home to your house, you're trying to figure out how to hook it up to a TV, which back in those days was not always simple. There were different connectors and so on, and then you had it for a day or two, and then you'd lug it back and return it. And you know, my dad had the idea of why don't we just let them keep the VCR? Well, you know, we'll get some in that are for sale and let them keep it for$10 a week, and after a certain number of weeks, they'll own it. We have a customer that's dedicated to us, and uh, that was kind of the start of our rent to own program. I think that he had gotten the idea from I believe there were Curtis Mathis dealers in our area at that time. We're talking way back then. And uh so that was how we started in Rent to Own uh as a you know, as part of our family business. And that that business went went well, uh, but we we just stuck to the VCRs for for a couple of years until we had, you know, the video business in those days was challenging. So we were in the business for a number of years. Blockbuster came to town and uh really challenged us, and and we didn't really rise to the challenge in the video business, so we struggled. Um but what what I realized was this this VCR uh rental program was working pretty well. It's the one consistent source of income we had. There were no ups and downs. We could count on that steady, you know,$10 a week from from you know 20, 30 customers per store. And uh what was kind of the tipping point for us in terms of, hey, let's make this a business was we had one of our very best customers who had rented a couple VCRs from us, and they came to us and said, I want a camcorder, which for those of you who are young might not know what that is, but that was like a video recorder back before your phone could do it for you. And uh, and and so you would you know hold it on your shoulder and and you would videotape everything, and then you could watch it in your VCR. And these people were desperate for one, and we literally didn't have the$800 in the company to buy this for them, and we knew they were gonna pay, but we just didn't have the money. And so, you know, I said, Well, you know, I'm gonna do this. And and I I you know I had a credit card and I went out and bought this camcorder for them, and and then I rented to own this this camcorder to them. And and then, you know, after that, I said, Well, I'm gonna make this my little business inside of our video business. And so we started renting uh TVs and stereos and and all sorts of different uh types of items uh over the time, and then that just expanded and expanded until it became the primary business over a long time.

SPEAKER_01: 6:54

There's a couple questions that come along with that. The first thing is, can you tell me how big one of the first VCRs were?

SPEAKER_00: 7:02

Yeah, I'm trying to compare it to something so if you see my shoulder width, right? So I would have to carry it like this, and it was probably this high, so probably eight inches high, probably two two and a half feet wide and two feet deep, and and probably weighing twenty pounds, plus or minus. We've come a long way to put something in the back of your pocket that can stream everything, right?

SPEAKER_01: 7:26

Exactly. We started doing the VCRs, as big as they are, they're renting for$10 a week. You go into the camcorder side, you realize that there's a way to make this happen. As you're transitioning and making this very small rent-to-owned store, what year, what about you, what year was that?

SPEAKER_00: 7:43

I'm gonna guess it was around 91, 92. It was uh I I was graduating college in 91, and I think it was right around the same time, maybe even a little before that. It might have been 1990, uh, when we were when we were getting into that that part of the business.

SPEAKER_01: 7:58

So at so you've got these two series, you've got you know, the VCRs, we're trying to get into camcorders, you open up this business. What were some of the next lines that you pulled in first that you thought, you know, this is going to be a great idea, this is gonna sell first?

SPEAKER_00: 8:12

Well, it was funny because my wife Trisha, uh, who you've met, she was a customer of one of our video stores back then. Of course, I didn't I didn't know her back then, I didn't meet her until you know 12 years ago. But back then she was a customer of one of our video stores. She lived down the road, and she said, you know, it was so strange. I liked the video store, it was convenient, the people were very nice, but I would walk in and around the the walls were all these movies, and then in the middle of the store were washers and dryers and and uh you know different things like that. So as far as what we got into next, it was that it was laundry items, anything we could buy at Sam's Club, right? So there was a Sam's Club that opened in York PA, and that that's the equivalent of a Costco for those of you who don't have Sam's Club near you. And and so we could buy as a business member, we could go in there and buy wholesale cost on, I mean, wholesale is not that much less than retail, but washers and dryers, TVs, stereos. So that's that's the next types of things we got into.

SPEAKER_01: 9:07

So who was the first vendor back then? Because you know, Costco, Sam's Club, they're kind of available to pretty much anybody who has a card. If you have a small business, you can do that. What were some of the vendors that wouldn't normally be available to Costco or Sam's Club that you started off with first?

SPEAKER_00: 9:22

Our first, and the one thing that is is I think a little bit interesting about our history is that we didn't know anything about APRO or Trib at that time. We had no knowledge of them. And and so a number of years later, we discovered, and I don't know the year, but we just we've been a member of APRO for probably 25 years, give or take. And and so when we finally discovered APRO, that's when we started really discovering the vendors, and we started learning the laws of rent to own, and we started learning the best practices in terms of margins. And and so I was always so impressed how I would go to these shows, and even back then, you know, people like Lynn Leach and you know, he he was one of the most prolific speakers at that time, and uh, you know, Mike Tissett, I think, was already speaking at that time, and and of course you heard from Larry Carico. And anyway, you know, I learned so much from them, and I was just so impressed that this this group of people who were competing with each other, which had that type of information. But to get back to your question, I think that our very first vendor that wasn't accessible to the public was GE Appliances. Um I and I can't remember how I got connected with them. I think I got connected with them before we were a member of APRO, and that may have been how we discovered APRO. But uh yeah, I think it was GE appliances was the first one.

SPEAKER_01: 11:25

Did you ever really have a vendor at that point? Because we are talking already in the 90s. Usually when I hear a kickback on this question, it's usually from the 80s. But did you ever come across a vendor that was kind of like, I'm not really sure about the rent-to-owned space and not really comfortable with selling that? Any obstacles that you had to overcome then, as far as vendors were concerned?

SPEAKER_00: 11:46

Oh, we've well we've encountered that through our entire life cycle. And I it's hard to remember the specific ones from way back then, but even more recently. I mean, it was not that many years ago that we couldn't buy Bose. You know, that was probably five or six years ago when Bose finally agreed to sell to us and and other you know, other vendors like that because they they just feel like they're, I guess I won't say too good for rent to that's the that's the perception we got as a as a dealer, at least, is they they felt like they they didn't want to be in our stores, which I think most of them over time we've we've we've realized and they've realized that our customers are want their product and can afford their product, they just need a payment plan for it.

SPEAKER_01: 12:26

What do you think going back to those first days when you you've got the walls lined up and everything in the center, what do you think that your unique approach to rent-to-own actually made it successful?

SPEAKER_00: 12:39

You know, honestly, I think it's the same thing that that helps us succeed today. And I think it's just that family approach. In other words, our goal with doing this was never about maximizing every penny out of every piece of merchandise. In fact, that was one of our problems early on, is we didn't mark things up enough. So we really just didn't we didn't have a very good profit margin. But we always just wanted to help people get these things. I mean, back to that very for first story about why we did the rent to own in the first place. It was to help people avoid having to lug VCRs home every weekend. And and so since the very beginning, I think that's been the story of our business is we we want to help people, you know, whatever we can do to help people, that's that's what we try to lean on. So helping, making sure that you're meeting, you're you're serving the need that they have.

SPEAKER_01: 13:30

Exactly. What was so then what was probably I mean, because every time that we talk to a legend, we know that there is a success. You're here. There's been plenty of years in between here and there, and some trials, some tribulations that that that really kind of helped you get here. But so far, we're saying, let's say late 80s, early 90s, so you know, almost 30 years. What was the time in in rent to own where you said, you know what, this this is a difficult time. This is not like normal. We're we're we're definitely hitting some difficult area in, you know, this is turbulence on this ride.

SPEAKER_00: 14:04

Yeah, we went through many phases of that. I mean, there's definitely been ups and downs throughout the entire, you know, 40 plus years now. And um a a couple of those uh for us, well, a high point was when we finally decided we could open a rent-to-own only store. So it took us a long time to figure that out that hey, we can we can open a rent-to-own store. And that was a huge high point for us when we opened our very first non-video store that featured rent-to-own. And it was a big risk, but we we took that leap. It was a 10,000 square foot store in a in a pretty prominent shopping center, so we're paying a lot of rent for that time, and and it went went very well, better than our expectations. But then, you know, you go through phases where, as you do in today's world, where we we got to the point um very early on where we had four stores, and that doesn't sound like much in today's world, but four stores was a tipping point for us that really caused us problems. We had three stores, and I was kind of the what you would call the DM at that point, and uh they were three high-volume stores, and and I uh, you know, I think I did a pretty good job. I I had never been trained, I didn't know what I was doing, and I didn't have any leadership training or any leadership knowledge even. And so I muddled through kind of being a DM of those three stores. And then when we opened the fourth store, it was in a tougher market. Um, and that was one of our biggest struggles. Our very first manager we put in that store, who was our strongest manager in the company, he came from our best store. He went to open this new store, and he he literally had a like a nervous breakdown and and had to be at because it was such a different market, different than he was used to. I really it took us a number of years to figure that out. So, I mean, that was a huge tipping point. It a opening in a very tough market, one we hadn't been, you know, been in a similar market before, and then simultaneously just I think exceeding my capacity at that point, because again, I just didn't know what I was doing at that point. That was a huge one, and then you know, we we've gone through similar things where we were at four stores for quite a while, and then we we kind of came to a decision we either need to grow or we need to figure out how to make these stores better and better. And we felt like whenever we opened stores, it gave us energy and and a renewed kind of life, and so we went from uh four to eight stores in about two years. Uh, and then we bought five stores right after that. And this is in the in the early 2010s, I think it was around 2013. And so we went from four to thirteen stores in about two years, and that was a a huge um challenge just again, as you can imagine, yeah, trying to figure out how to how to lead, how to, how to now start supervising DMs when I didn't even really know what I was doing as a DM. And uh so teaching teaching all that um was was challenging. And that's that's kind of when we got to the point uh in about 2017, so a few years later, is when we we really dug into leadership and leadership training and development, and and we we realized we needed to get back to the family roots that made us made us who we were, and and that's that's kind of what led to that cultural, what we call our magic cultural revolution, I guess you would say. Um but that's that's what led to that is we wanted to get back to where we were when we were uh when we were uh just a family-owned uh business and not uh not so um where we didn't have you know we just had the three or four stores, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_01: 17:33

When so coming to the other side of that coin, when was the time when you knew that you made it? That you like like we're gonna be here. We're solid, we're gonna be here regardless of the fact. We can have a bad week or a bad month, but this is what I'm going to do, and magic is gonna stay.

SPEAKER_00: 17:50

Honestly, I think it was it was when we we had a a leadership meeting, our very first leadership meeting that we had ever had, which says a lot, I guess, in January of 2017. And it was a very, very, very challenging time for me personally, for for the company, for our leadership team, because we were just going through that huge growth cycle and having to churn a lot of employees from the company we bought. And when we had that first leadership off-site, it was a two-day off-site, and uh, we came away from that off-site meeting feeling really, really good. We felt like we have a lot to deal with, but we now have a plan to deal with it. So I think that's you know, that's something that was really the turning point that said, all right, I know we got this now. And from there on out, we've just I think we've we've you know, obviously you have your ups and downs no matter what, but we've really gone in a good direction ever since that then, because we've just stayed with stayed the course with that strategic planning and and and weekly follow-ups and just making sure we're following the plan.

SPEAKER_01: 18:49

Well, plan and process is extremely important in this business, especially when you're trying to grow and do it successfully. But taking the idea of leadership and saying, you know, we were able to give that and start doing that, whether we whether we knew what we were doing or not, we started it and we started going down this path. But that's very important to a store. Was there somebody or several people when you first started this out that were mentors to you? I know you've already mentioned that, you know, at one point when you first came on April Hall at Mike Disney was talking and Lindleise was talking, but was there anybody that really took you under the wing or was a mentorship to you or to magic and helped you kind of really get from where you were in the beginning to where you are now?

SPEAKER_00: 19:31

Uh there's no one particular person that's that kind of helped magic move forward, but I would say that who helped me personally have the confidence to help magic move forward is the way I would say it. And and you know, from the very first committee I served on in the industry, I vividly remember it was with Shannon Strunk and Gary Farriman and myself. And those two gentlemen, I was just this newbie in the industry, and I was I'm a I'm an extreme introvert by nature, and and I was just, you know, that first meeting we were in, I was just a mute almost, you know, and and uh but but I must have said a few things that that struck a chord with them because both of them really took an interest in me. And and Shannon in particular, you know, just just helped me get uh not helped me get on the board, but encouraged me to run for the trib board and and then run for the Apro board and actually in that reverse order. And so Shannon and Gary in particular, I I look up to as early, early mentors, and more recently over the last, you know, ever since I got to know him, probably 12 or 15 years ago, I'm not sure. Mike Tissett has just always been a guy who, you know, I've never met a person more giving than him. But there's so many others. I mean, Lynn Leach, we don't have the personal connection that I have with some of the others, but he just always teaching, always sharing. And there's probably 20 more that I'm missing. Chris Boland, uh, what a great leader he is and teacher. Uh and especially for those those people who have you know three or four stores or whatever. I wish I had met Chris back when I had three stores. I would have stayed with three stores and just done done what he did, which is make them huge stores and super profitable. And um so there's so many people, but the earliest ones would have been uh uh Shannon and Gary for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 21:18

Yeah, we you know, both of them are also going to be on these on these podcasts. And I tell Gary all the time, all the time, every time that I talk to Gary, you have no idea how many people mention your name. And you know, he always takes it as humble as a humble person can. He's not that type of person to be, you know, volumeless and just he's just a very humble guy, but he always has some great things to say. He always is very genuine and very, you know, he has a mentorship mentality, whether he likes it or not. You know, people just listen to what he has to say. And everybody I've talked to has always mentioned Gary at some point in time. And it's it's always it's always good to hear that, you know, he's he's been able to help so many of us get to where we are. And you know, talking about helping us getting to where we are, you said early on that you didn't know much of what was going on with the rent-to-own scene until you had come on board April and you started meeting some of the talent and the I want to say the personalities that came with Apro, because I mean you've got some people Mike is a personality in himself, you know, it's just it's his personality. But like, when did you really start getting into the advocacy part? When did you start going, okay, you know what? April's here for more than just this. There's an advocacy part, and how can I participate?

SPEAKER_00: 22:30

You know, it took me a long time to finally go to my first legislative conference. Um, and that's because I am an introvert and I I feared going to a legislator's office and freezing up or saying the wrong thing or putting my foot in my mouth, which is what introverts do. And uh, but I finally did it and I was paired with someone. I I well I can't remember that first time, but someone who had been to other meetings was paired up with me and went to my meetings with me. And as I tend to do, you know, I was fine in that meeting when I'm one-on-one. I usually am a fairly decent communicator. And and then uh just taking away the fact that even if I don't meet with the senator or the congressperson, that I'm meeting with the staff member who probably is driving decisions anyway, and really feeling heard and feeling like we do have a voice and that they do want to hear from us. That was very encouraging to me. And um and and again, but the fact that most of the people I spoke to had really no real knowledge of our industry and how it works and the people we help. And um, you know, if they had any knowledge, it was because maybe they ran it from Rena Center in college or something like that. Uh, but most of them didn't have any idea that we help people who maybe don't have money management skills that maybe they were taught as a child. Um, and and they these you know many of our customers just don't have that skill set, and we help them learn that. And uh just sharing that message was very encouraging to me. And I think I might have missed one of those legislative conferences since then, and uh we had a conflict for some reason, but it's been such a good experience um getting involved in that, and uh uh and and I guess that's the answer to your question is just that the legislative conference, I would recommend it for anyone and everyone. And you've been there, you should know exactly what I'm talking.

SPEAKER_01: 24:17

You know what? Uh I remember the first year that I went, I didn't know what to expect. Like you, I was like, I've done a lot of things, but standing in front of somebody who's been on CNN and kind of helped write the laws for the country, that's where I caught a drawing point. I was a little worried. But uh I was able to go with a couple people that kind of really put me on my ear and said, Pete, you're you're you're overthinking this way too much. Like, if this is what you're passionate about, you're probably gonna sit in front of somebody who has no idea what we're talking about. And you're informing them like a brand new customer. This is why we're so important, this is how we affect everybody. And uh I remember coming out of it going, I've got to do this again. I really do. Uh, you know, part of part of the way the show transitioned is I never thought that I would be doing this. I I never thought that I would come down this road. Um, at some point in time, I was very uh kind of like yourself. I'm like, I I'm to myself, I'm just that kind of guy. And I remember early on uh when Danny was there, you know, uh it actually Amberly is a reason why I'm doing this. If you want to come all the way back full circle, she she was pitching a commercial idea, and Danny was like, you know what, I'll do it. I was like, I don't know, I don't know. And uh well, she pitched the idea, and I was like, I don't know. And Danny said, Well, I'll do it. And I was like, there's no way you're beating me. There's that's just not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00: 25:31

And so lo and behold, she created this whole this this whole thing that happened later and later, and it's funny, but you know I re I remember your your buddy, your not buddies, it was uh uh ranking your superman type commercials and all that stuff. Yeah, I I think I saw every one of those. I was uh that was uh that was great. Yeah, great.

SPEAKER_01: 25:49

We can't we keep full circle from that, and uh and I gotta say, you know, it's the people that we interact with in our lives that have helped us get to where we are. And you know, you always want to remember the mentors, you always want to remember the people that have helped you along the way. And you know, one of those things was Pete, you gotta go to one of these advocacy things. I was talking to uh Charles about it, and then I had talked to a lot of other people about it, and you gotta go to it, and it was so important. But I just started last year, you know, this is my second year 2024, 2023 was my first year. When did you first attend?

SPEAKER_00: 26:18

I think probably 15 years ago, and that that sounds crazy because time uh in flies, right? And so it doesn't seem that long ago, but yeah, it was probably 15, maybe more years ago. It's been quite a while.

SPEAKER_01: 26:30

Yeah, it's it's one of those things like I can't believe that I'm I'm actually getting ready for my next one next year. Like I have to plan for it because of everything that's going on, especially because you know, thank goodness the growth of the show and everything. So I've got like I've got like pretty big the calendar already. But you know, talking about future, coming from the past that you've had, kind of growing an organic store from literally not even being a store to going into this rental location and and kind of going above and beyond, not only opening your stores, but buying other stores and kind of bringing that all together. What is something that you would expect to say to, let's say, somebody in the future, somebody who's creating a brand now, somebody who's talking about opening a store or getting, you know, because this can be a little bit different now than it was then. Back then it was a little bit harder to understand rental. Now it's it's on a few more street corners. But what is something that you would say to somebody who's going down that road, that path that you've been on, and say, you know what? If there was anything that uh I wish I would have known back then, it was this?

SPEAKER_00: 27:31

Yeah, um, well, there's so much, but I'll start with a couple. Number one, I wish I had connected with the industry sooner. Um, so so making inserting yourself into whatever industry you're you're involved with, but certainly in our industry, being a part of April, being a part of Trip, sharing what you know and then learning from others, like it's a give and take, right? And that's what's so cool about our industry is people are willing to share what succeeds because I think everyone in this industry, or I should say most people in this industry, understand that a rising tide lifts all boats. And if we help if we help every company in the industry serve our customers better, then our industry is perceived better. And so if we can just help everyone do that better, that helps us all. It helps expand our reach. And so we don't have to be cutthroat and and keep our our ideas a secret because we want everyone to do better, and that just helps our customers uh love our industry even more than they already do, and it helps them spread the word, I would say. So that's one of them, and then and then you know for me personally, learning um learning about leadership, learning uh what it takes to be a good leader. Uh I I learned that way too late. So it's it's one of my passions in our company, and it's one of my passions within 8 Pro and Trib is sharing what I've learned over the years that I wish I had known 20 years earlier. So those those two things are two of the keys, I would say, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 28:57

You know, it's funny you say that, you know, um about the rising tide, because there have been times where we're until as a whole, as an industry and as an individual location, whether it be magic, whether it be raps, whether it be buddies, whatever the case is. We get this moniker from the media that, you know, we're we're, you know, kind of little cutthroat and we're we're kind of doing things that probably normal businesses wouldn't do. What would you say to that right now, after all the experience and all the time that you've spent growing and now going to the April and the Trip sources, uh, you know, meeting of the Minds, RTO world, and now being on the boards, what would you say to that?

SPEAKER_00: 29:38

Well, I think so much of what what we talk about at those meetings is all about how do we help our customers, how do we serve our customers better? And anyone who's critical of that, my my messaging always is talk to our customers. Read read our Google reviews. We have our company in particular, we have hundreds of and hundreds of Google reviews that are five-star at every one of our stores, and they're sincere. That's why I say read them, you know, come to our stores and talk to our customers because they love us. We have generational customers. There's there's not a lot of companies in this country or worldwide, I would say, that have four generations of customers, where you have a grandmother, a daughter, a you know, a grandchild, and so on. And and we have many, many customers who have three generations. I I I saw someone post it on the Trib Connections, I think it was a four-generation uh gap the other day. And I'm sure we have that at Magic. I'm not aware of specifics, but we have a number of customers that we dealt with way back when who now have their children and their grandchildren renting from us. And if we're you know not taking care of them and we're not serving them and we're not providing them with the value that they feel like they're getting, they wouldn't come back. You know, if if we're quote unquote taking advantage of them, they wouldn't come back for the second rental item, much less have a whole house full of products from magic, and then have encourage their children and their grandchildren to come to Magic to fill their houses with products too. So you know, I just encourage people to do more research and and talk to the actual customers instead of listening to sources that may not have the full story.

SPEAKER_01: 31:12

Well, you say they came to magic, they're from magic. Where did the magic name come from?

SPEAKER_00: 31:18

Really out of thin air. So when we first started, like I said, we were in the video business and and our name was Movies Galore. We did not invent that name, that was inherited from the company we bought it from. And uh and so we were Movies Galore for the longest time, and then we were Movies Galore and Rent to Own, I think. I forget, I forget how that was, but we just we had to come up with a name, and so we brainstormed. And at that time, I think it was me and my dad and my mom who did all the brainstorming late at night, usually at a Denny's. And we uh we uh you know we were throwing around ideas and I think my dad said what about magic and I was like I love that you know magic rent to owns and then we we decided to spell it in a quirky way just to make it quirky you know so I kind of regret that a little bit because I can't tell you how many times people say are you with Majak you know or some other some other other pronunciation but um but it's uh yeah it was just kind of pulled out of thin air we were throwing around brainstorming ideas and I'm pretty sure it was my dad that threw out the name magic and we all we all I like that idea I like that story.

SPEAKER_01: 32:22

You know coming through those times as well there was a there was a time or two where there was some regulation that popped up and it kind of almost put Rent to home on a pause. Were were you involved in that in any way?

SPEAKER_00: 32:34

Did that affect you? I was blissfully ignorant back then. That was before I had discovered APRO and TRIB and and honestly it's it's funny to say that because Pennsylvania was really a hot spot for that for potential problems at that time and I was just totally unaware. We didn't know you know we just were we're kind of making it up as we went along at that time and I think that was in the late 80s when that was happening maybe the early 90s and uh we hadn't really discovered APRO until about that time or a little after that. And it's one of the reasons that I I again I would encourage everyone to discover the industry groups earlier because it could have been catastrophic for us if if we had been you know big enough to be investigated by anyone because they would have looked at our rental agreement and found it was completely lacking because we just made it up, you know, and and so on.

SPEAKER_01: 33:24

So we were uh blissfully unaware I guess is the way I would say it you know there there was definitely you know there was a misconception in the law in the government about how we did what we did and the benefits outweighing the what they would consider negatives and uh not understanding you know genuinely where we're coming from how well we can help the consumer and the fact that they're not locked in in any way shape or form. You know what how would you respond to some of those narratives nowadays? If you're if you're going to you know if you're going to let's say a legislator's office and I know that you're you're the recluse so I'm gonna I'm but but in your words you know you go into the office and you actually do have somebody who understands where it's home at least a little bit at least what they think and they're in one of those you know tackling states that are like hey you know what you're in DC I'm from this state I don't like what's going on what would you say to them that somebody that has this negative moniker this negative narrative to for them to own well I I think that the negative uh implication perceptions come from a lack of correct information and and so again I would educate them on the on the transaction and the laws that already govern the transaction which the biggest mixed misconception I hear is people that say we lock people into long-term agreements.

SPEAKER_00: 34:50

And anyone who's ever worked in rent to own and I think 99.999% of our customers whoever have listened to us when we explain the agreement they understand completely that it's exactly the opposite that a customer has complete flexibility they are able to cancel their agreement at any time and uh and they don't owe us anything. You know I I think in Pennsylvania and most states by law we can't charge a pickup fee. We when they say to us hey I don't want to rent this anymore we'll go pick it up at their house they don't owe us anything and it's it's and then if they want to come back later they can come back later and most companies in rent to own offer what you know the term lifetime reinstatement meaning that if if someone rents something from us, let's say it's a 75 inch TV that they because they wanted to watch football season and and they pay six months on a TV and then they're like, you know I can't I can't really afford this anymore they can come back a year later and and they can pick up right where they left off with a similar TV and we give them credit for every payment they made. I mean what's a more flexible consumer friendly transaction than that I would say there isn't one in existence. The counter to that might be yeah but they pay a lot more for that. Well they do pay more for that but they the the thing that again is not really widely uh spread is the fact that during that time we cover all repairs we offer free delivery and setup if they don't like it anymore we we can pick it up and return it and we have that lifetime reinstatement. So yes it's more for a TV than to go to Walmart and buy a TV but you have a lot of flexibility and a lot of built-in uh services that Walmart isn't providing either so um you know I I I uh enjoy those conversations because I think that the that that that uh the options I think is is is the way I like to uh explain it the best is we're giving the consumer options and if he or she doesn't like the options we have to offer they can just stop renting from us and they can go anywhere else they want and they can just keep on rolling and keep on rolling. I agree.

SPEAKER_01: 36:53

With everything that you've been through and some of the things that you've seen because you've been doing you've been going to DC for a while you've seen you know the rising tides and the fall sometimes whether it be an April whether it be in trip whether it be a magic we come out on on the other end of this you know I'd like to say then come out on the other end of it okay we're doing all right what about this industry what about magic would you like people to remember years from now?

SPEAKER_00: 37:21

I think it's that specifically I'll start with magic I think what I would love for people to remember about magic is that we cared about people and we care about our employees. Our coworkers are what makes us who we are and because we care about them and we um we demonstrate that daily to them they take care of our of our customers and so our customers we have you know we have customers as with most companies that do that are in this business that bring us pizza they bring us cookies they bring and not me they don't bring me that but they bring the people in the stores that the people they deal with daily so I go and eat the cookies sometimes but no I would love them to remember that our customers love us and our employees love us because we value them and we treat them with respect. You know we always talk about how we want our customers to feel when they come into magic we want them to feel the same way that a customer might feel when they walk into Nordstrom's if they're a multimillionaire, right? So we want our customers to feel that sense of respect and inclusion and and uh we we accept everyone and we want them to feel like they're a part of the magic family. And that's what I would like for that. As far as the industry goes I mean I think that it's it's a very similar thing. I think industry wide most companies in our industry their goal is to help customers have options help customers have products that they couldn't otherwise have and provide them with the choices of how to how to pay for that and whether they want to own it or not.

SPEAKER_01: 38:54

So I think it's a similar message industry wide well you know you always want to be remembered for the great things regardless some there there's there's some trials and tribulations along the way that can happen and you know it's sometimes it's it's just as well to get through those because you learn a lesson there's something out of it that you take out of it that you can take with you for good bad or indifferent you know you learn from it you don't do it again and you figure out a way to make it work for you. If I did this and it didn't work now I try this and I'm gonna stick to that because I know the other side of that coin is a bad part of the equation. You know part of what I always realize and and I don't know if it's like this in any other industry because I've never been in any other industry as long as I've been a rental home but it's like there's always a constant evolving whether it's slow, whether it's fast, there is a point where you can look at it and go, we are always trying to be better tomorrow than we are today. And today we are a little bit better than we were yesterday. You know whether it be the point of sale system that that really made a difference whether it be the vendors that we're finally able to you know work with whether it be some of the laws that we can finally outshine and say hey this is not correct. This is what we want to do you know putting the rent-to-owned industry on a pedestal is not what I want to do but it's like a reminder like hey it's not what you think let me tell you about the great things that this happens we pull millions of people we help millions of families we are not just one conglomerate and I don't mean to say anything about any big companies but we're not like Walmart or we're not like Target where it's everybody and we kind of take over all the areas it's about having this one community that works its best to help the people in the community that they're in. And you know Magic's in Pennsylvania and we've got other ones in different states and it's always a great thing to see them kind of together and really help each other and and kind of move forward. Now you know we're doing this legend series as a way to get the information from people like yourself who've been doing this for years and years and years. How can we get the information from then to now how do you want this book that we're putting together through April to be seen in the future again I would love it to tell the real story of Rent to Own.

SPEAKER_00: 41:02

I think the history is part of it of course I I'm always fascinated to hear the anecdotes from the early days right and we had our own early days so we were kind of around in the early days but we as I said we weren't really part of the industry per se. So I love hearing how some of the others got their start and it's interesting to me how so many of them started in in video uh the same we did there was there was so how how did you you know something that I I think when you were talking about it I did miss you said that you were in video and then you started doing rentals and you had agreements that were kind of like self-made how did you get from those two actual literal rental agreements that were made up how did you go from that debition to kind of sort of probably should have done it this way but we did it because that's how we what we knew to all right we know this is solid this is what we need to do. It was definitely someone in the rental industry I think it was probably uh Ed Wynn you know I uh he was he was the go-to guy for legal stuff back then so I I'm I'm guessing I probably said hey Ed here's what we're using and and he said yeah don't use that anymore so we when we discovered 8 Pro we definitely uh upgraded our rental agreements and and I'm pretty sure it was through through what was your first um poos system that you used uh we we used one that we uh way back in the day uh my dad hired someone to write a POS system for our video store and then when it came time to add rental to that I I was a programmer it's one of the things I loved to do when I was younger so I I modified that to account for the rent to own and then when the year 2000 was coming along I created a Windows version of it which I thought was really good actually we we loved that system but we really wanted to expand a lot more and as as we were moving into a situation when we had 13 stores and I was still spending you know 20 hours a week improving our point of sale system and still trying to run a company with 13 stores I kind of made the decision that I either had to choose to be a computer programmer or to run the business.

SPEAKER_01: 43:04

So I chose to run the business and so our first point of sale system long short story short was was Versarrent we were one of the early adopters of the of the Windows version of Versarint um when they first uh came out with that but prior to that it was all self-made all self-free it sounds like you like you wore a lot of hats back then oh my gosh yeah a lot of hats for sure for sure so come all the way back now you're the president of April you've been on multiple boards you have Magic which is always revered as probably one of the best cultured rent owned companies in the industry which it's funny you say that you you you didn't know a lot about it to being one of the ones that have probably one of the better cultures to say about not just to speak about it as in it has a great culture but you were actually you know Magic was awarded one of the best places to work in Pennsylvania was it 2023 or 2024?

SPEAKER_00: 44:03

Actually three years in a row now yeah three years in a row it's still running we're hoping four years in a row yeah we're just just completing the surveys right now for that so hopefully four years in a row.

SPEAKER_01: 44:13

I mean that's that's great to see that it's come full server that you've been able to grow with the industry and the industry has kind of grown with you. There's a lot of leadership that you know we we've talked about here and just so that I could put this on the record Ed Wynne is the number two person that everybody always mentions as helped me get to somewhere from this point. And he's been doing it for so long and I know that he's out of it now but I you know I always say to everybody if you call I guarantee you he's going to answer the call because that's Ed Wynne. He just that's the guy he is but you know Danielle I really appreciate you being on the show. I really appreciate you taking out the time to just sit down with us and talk a little bit of shop talk a little bit about what it was like kind of from the beginning and getting to where we are and I will tell you guys we always appreciate you guys watching the show especially the Legend series that you can learn just like I am as I'm sitting here kind of listening to Daniel and everybody else talk about how it was, how it used to be the trials and tribulations and how we ended up here being in this wonderful industry, always advocating for it in DC every year or growing or having the best culture in our state. That's exactly what we're here to do just have the best place and have the best people and I want to tell you guys I appreciate you all the time for listening in. If you have any questions please email me Pete at the rtoshow podcast dot com. You can ask me any questions about Daniel like how the heck did he get the greatest culture or how did he ever figure out April was alive and I will pass that along if anything happens I promise you I will answer you back. If you want to see us online you can see us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and now YouTube where you're gonna see this and I will tell you guys as always, Daniel I appreciate your time and I appreciate you being with us. Get your collections loaded to get your sales time. Have a great one