How to develope Rent to Own leaders for success (Part 1 of 2)

What does it take to develop rent-to-own leaders who go on to become district managers, regional managers, and multi-unit operators? In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Pete Shau sits down with Jason Winters — a 23-year rent-to-own industry veteran who spent over a decade as a district manager under the Rent-A-Center umbrella, including roles at Impact RTO Holdings and Acceptance Now — for one of the most candid and experience-rich leadership development conversations ever featured on The RTO Show Podcast.

Jason's story starts the way many in the RTO industry do: as a delivery driver in a white shirt and tie, working three jobs before a $13-an-hour opportunity at Rent-A-Center changed everything. From that entry-level start, he went on to run nine different store locations as a general manager — urban, rural, turnaround, and flagship — before ascending to the district manager level, where over the next 13-plus years he developed ten individuals who went on to become district managers themselves. That track record of rent-to-own leadership development is what makes this episode essential listening for any operator, GM, or aspiring multi-unit manager in the RTO industry.

Pete and Jason dig into what actually separates a great rent-to-own store manager from a great district manager, why the jump to multi-unit management is less about knowledge and more about mindset, and why being present in fewer stores almost always outperforms managing a bloated district from a distance. Jason also introduces the concept of the "emotional bank account" — why investing in your people before making demands of them is the foundation of every high-performing RTO store team.

The conversation gets into one of the most honest leadership lessons you'll hear on this podcast: the story of Jason's biggest mistake as a GM — taking over a thriving thousand-account store and managing it down by 200 agreements in a matter of months because he was too rigid to understand how the previous manager's methods were actually working. It's a masterclass in why rent-to-own store takeovers require patience, observation, and humility before action.

Jason also introduces the origin of his now-famous "Jeff'd Up" story — a training concept built around merchandise handling, product depreciation, and delivery standards that reframes how RTO delivery techs understand the true cost of careless handling to a store's P&L and reputation.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hello and welcome everyone. Here at the RTO show, we're proud to have April as our premier podcast sponsor. April's always had its finger on the pulse of America's rent-to-owned industry, including up-to-the-minute news and information, fun and valuable events, and even its legal hotline. April knows what's going on in the rental industry and how to help you navigate. Don't miss April's best of RTO World webinar coming up on Tuesday, October 10th. Learn more and register today at rtohq.org. That's rtohq.org. And now to the show. Hello everybody. Welcome to the RTO show. Today, we're talking rent to own with Jason Winters, now a former Impact Holdings DM. Right.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Formerly of Impact RTO. Now, when we say former, we mean like very recently with 23 years of experience?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Yep, 23 years. I started in 2000, so it's pretty easy to keep track of. It's 2023 and I started in 2000.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

So the switch over. So when you started back then, that was a corporate.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Yep, corporate rental center. Before I went to Rena Center, I had uh I was working three jobs. Whenever I had a day off, it's when I slept, basically. Yeah. Um but then the Rena Center opportunity came back came along, and they were paying a pretty good wage back in 2000. It was 13 bucks an hour. I remember that. I remember that. When I came on, I was $13 an hour. Yeah, you know, it's funny how many people I talked to, they came at that exact time. So they they decided to invest in some upfront pay for people, right? And then they got some good people. Paul Mative also, who I know you've talked you've talked to recently, I think he came along when they were paying that. It was $13 an hour, 48 hours a week. Yes. Um, I was a driver, and and back then you used to have to wear the white shirt and tie uh to do deliveries in in the black pants. Yes, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Um you know, a lot of people don't understand that now. When I say and I and I feel so old because sometimes when I tell people that, they're like, oh, who does that? And I'm like, no, no, no, you don't understand. We were shirt and tie in the back of a truck in the Florida heat every day. Every day. The rookie mark down the back of your shirt from the from the lift gate.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yeah. You know, wired.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Yep, that black mark, the cable. I think everybody knew at one point in time he was gonna get a shirt to that thing. Yeah, he was gonna lose a shirt to that thing. So you've been doing it for 23 years, and one of the things that I noticed is you you've been at an RM, right? So you're regional, right? So you have a multiple set of stores between seven and ten, right? Usually Rena Center calls them a district manager, basically.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Okay. Yeah. Um, Impact calls them regional managers, but basically you're at you're managing between seven and ten stores. Um now I think Rena Center corporate is doing quite a few more stores. I think they've got 14, 15 stores per district right now.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

What do you think about that? Like, how do you think because I was talking to Paul, you know, and he says uh actually fewer seems a little bit better, and I kind of agree.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Well, Impact made the decision to kind of go the opposite direction um and have fewer, fewer locations, and I and I I support that because you're gonna be a lot more present in your six stores or seven stores than you would be in your 15. Now, there's other tools that they have available on the corporate side that the motorship kind of provides that you know they have a you know a lot more reporting accessibility, and they think that they, you know, they just have a few more things that they can use at their disposal than a than a franchisee or a mama-pop type place. But I mean, it seems to be working for them too. So I don't know. Uh it's up in the air. But it I the theory is that six stores, you shouldn't really have problems for too long, right? Like you should be able to kind of ferret stuff out and figure out what's going on and get it going in the right direction pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

I feel like you're phoning it in with that many. Like you like you're just you're calling because I mean, think about it. If you've talked to one of them per day, that's 14 calls that you have to make. Uh, you have no idea how long you'll be on the phone because one guy could be have on it and you get through it, and you have three guys that don't, it'll take 15, 20, 30 minutes of phone call. By the end of the day, I mean, how how much can you really accomplish with your guys as far as training and understanding their store location versus another? Because 14 stores are spread out for a while. And you're talking about distance.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Yeah. So Well, I know Anthony um Blasqua is he's a very smart guy. Um, and the people over there are very smart people, so I'm sure that they've got it figured out. Um, I you probably have to be pretty good, right? You'd be able to manage that many staffs and issues and personalities and everything else that's gonna go into that, it's gonna be tough, but they're figuring it out and getting it done. I mean, a lot of times the big dogs are doing it, they're not doing it for no reason, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Well, they're making the big dollars, so they're doing something right. Exactly. But I do believe in the theory of being present in your stores, and and there really is little excuse. If you've got six stores and you're struggling in a couple of them, be there, right? Right and kind of run the other two or three remotely, four or five remotely. If you're put if you're there and you're you're actually dialing into what the issue is and and adding value to the team while you're there, you should be able to knock out and and really kind of go forward and develop some pretty cool people, right? At the same time. You got a lot of time to sit there and give your knowledge to them and make sure that they're applying it properly and and maybe help them avoid a few potholes that hit you on the way by, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Well, actually, that's what the topic for today is is leadership development, because out of all the years that you've been doing it, 10 different people have made it to the regional or division level, the multi-unit, in other words. And how long have you been doing the DM part?

SPEAKER_00 5:43

That's been about what, 13, 14 years, is more back then when I came here and I left my three jobs to get to the one, right? It was because I could support my family on the one, right? It was 48 hours a week, eight hours of overtime, right? So, and yeah, the other thing that was attractive to me at the time was the schedule. I didn't have to come in until 12, right? 12 o'clock to eight, and it was all deliveries basically. You know, I had a route, but I we called the route on the big ground green route books and highlighting it. Yeah, oh yeah, man. And we, you know, we learned the account management piece along with the delivery piece, but mostly we were doing the deliveries from 12 to 8. So I I like the party, and I had been working three jobs for quite some time, and I was like, man, I could go out all night and be at work by noon, no problem. Get out at eight, just in time to do it all over again. This is awesome, right? But then uh after a while, I was there for about six, eight months and something, and I and I see this smooth guy show up in a suit, and he kind of, you know, I had a pretty nice car. I think it was a Lincoln. I was like, oh, it's this guy. And he came into the store and was talking to the manager, and I looked over to the other driver, the assistant manager I was with. So, hey man, who's that guy? And uh, well, that's the district manager. What's the district manager? What's he doing? He looks like he does all right for himself, man. He's driving nice cars, he's got some nice clothes on. He's like, Yeah, man, that guy's like, he's balling, he's making like a hundred grand. I'm like, what? You're kidding, bro. Right, and then back in back in the day, it was like that was a that was life-changing money to me at the time. Like, I was because I, you know, I I had a my life happened to me real early, right? I had a lot of curved balls and stuff thrown at me when I was young. I was like, so what do I gotta do to become that guy? Well, first you gotta, you know, maybe become an assistant manager and then maybe a store manager after that, and then you're him. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I just gotta be a that's oversimplifying. I gotta be Johnny, who I don't wouldn't trust to make me a sandwich. Then I gotta be this guy, and then I if I do good at those two, I get to be that guy driving that nice car and that suit. He's like, Yeah. I was like, all right. So about eight months later, I was I was a store manager. In the time, um I ran nine different locations as a store manager. Wow, my boss moved me around quite a bit. He would send me to the fire. I was a firefighter. Like, if this store would kind of go out of whack, I would go there, figure it out, build the people up. And it was really awesome. At the time, I hated it. My wife hated it because sometimes the store was an hour away for less pay. And you know, I just kept telling her, just like, hold on, you know, we just gotta, I'm not doing this for this, I'm doing it for the next one. Right. So, but it was painful at times, but I got to run the store in the country, and I got to run the store in the hood, and I got to run the store down, you know what I mean, like that was just opening, and I got to run the old big store that you know, there's a the manager before was awesome and everybody loved him, and I'm not him, and they hate me. Like I went through every single kind of scenario which really ended up preparing me very well for the next level, right? But I during that I I learned that when I invested my my because I didn't want to be at some of these places very long, right? So I knew I had to get the next person kind of ready to go. So there's only a certain amount of things you gotta learn. There's only a certain amount of questions to ask. And you just gotta have create an environment where there are people are afraid, aren't afraid to ask a question or make a mistake. If you make that very safe and you just constantly are pouring yourself into people, Paul likes to call it the uh the emotional bank account, right? You gotta make a lot of deposits into somebody's emotional bank account before you can start making withdrawals. Um, and hopefully you don't make a lot of withdrawals, but everyone, everyone screws up, everyone says the wrong thing, everyone gets upset, everybody gets you know out of out of pocket or gets sick, and you know, they need you to step up for them. And I found that it was a lot easier to get that out of people that I was giving them the knowledge that they needed to get their job done. And I got the added benefit that they were a lot more useful to me as the manager of the store. Hey man, go go receive in that truck. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, they just so-and-so is on the phone, you know what to do, right? The more you get the people around you on your level, and that it's quicker, it's everything just runs smoother. And then the next thing you know, they're getting promoted. And the back the next best piece of advice I could give somebody is don't be afraid to lose your best guy. Make that your motivation. Like, don't ever a lot of people try to hold people back for their own convenience and just because they don't want to lose their best guy. They have their best guy that quietly runs the store. I mean, I just was never I was never afraid to lose my best guy. I wanted my best guy in the store next door. So if I needed that Xbox 360, I was gonna get it that day. I was gonna get that sale because he was gonna give it up because he owed me, you know what I mean? Because, you know, I I invested in his emotional bank account.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

It not only emotional bank account, his regular bank account. I mean, stepping somebody up means that they they get to move up the career and move up in earnings as well.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

I just learned that a long time people like you have to bend down to hold people down. Yeah, yeah. You gotta hold if your whole heads down below you, you're not going as high as you can go. Yes. And I just learned that very early, and and it's paid off time after time. And like I said, I it's a 10 people went on to become district managers, right? I can't take credit for their accomplishment, and I can't um you know say, oh, it was because of me. Oh, I'm just so awesome. It was more like I was the common denominator, and I like to think that I contributed to their success. Um, I think that they would say that I contributed in some way. Now, maybe I was their 11th grade teacher, you know what I mean? And I wasn't everybody has a lot of bosses. Some bosses you get, it was because you learn what not to do, right? And maybe they learned some of that from me as well. Yes. But we all learned it, we all learned together. But at the end of the day, these 10 people that used to work for me or with me that be went on to become district managers. That that is my proudest accomplishment after all these years. That's a big accomplishment, though. Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

That's a big accomplishment. Like, do you think that we as an industry do not shuffle people around enough anymore? Because I I did see it a lot back then, because I actually did the same thing. Uh no, I didn't do nine, I was about six, but I was moved around a lot. Like, you know, it could be eight months, could be a year, it could be 18 months, and then boom, you're somewhere else, and then boom, you're somewhere else. So the seven years that I did at Renaissance, I did it in several locations quite a few times. Um but I don't see that as much anymore. Now I'm not saying that we don't do it as an industry. I haven't seen it that much. Have you seen it? Have we gone away from it? And is that was that a good contributing factor to somebody being more well-rounded?

SPEAKER_00 12:28

I would say yeah. Um there's you can argue both sides, you know what I'm saying? Like when you get a dream team put together, it's tough to like suggest that maybe so-and-so should go spread that somewhere else, right? Like, but the main thing is it I don't know, it's like a family tree, right? Like, like Daniel, my most recent protege up in Jacksonville, right? Like, hit he got to be promoted because he ran a fantastic location, right? And the best, you know, the biggest thing you want to do when you have a fantastic location in your district is spread that, like little seedlings of that around to the other stores, right? Because those other stores see the numbers, and I make sure they see the numbers, and I they see them in the context that I want them to see them in, um, so that they know this store is doing it right. If I want to know how to do it right, I should probably maybe go see what's going on over there. Like cross-training is fantastic. 99% of the time, people got blinders on and they walk into their own store and they walk right by everything, they don't see what's really going on. But if you put them into another store for five minutes, oh that guy's not calling credit. Oh, that guy. He doesn't know how to talk to customers. Like, they know like immediately, right? So spreading, uh maybe not transferring people around, but definitely getting people out of their comfort zone and into another location. They start to see, yeah, man, I'm doing this back at my store too. Like, I really gotta stop this because this is where it could head and you know, get me to. But yeah, I think moving people around, I don't think it's bad. I just think that you're constantly tinkering with your with your staff to find the the yins to the yangs and make sure that there's a good credit person or collections person on and a good salesperson at the same time. You get a store full of collection people, they'll collect you down to nothing in a hurry. Uh yes, I I'm actually dealing with that right now.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

So is there so when you're so besides people that are just doing very well, because I mean you obviously want to pick from the people who are doing it right, but is there any so to speak, attributes, leadership skills, abilities that they have that are predisposed to them that makes you go not just that you're doing well, but like you have something else that I think is gonna give you the ability to be a good multi-unit manager.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

I'd tell you, I'd take a Dixie cup full of give a crap more than a gallon of schooling and knowledge and stuff like that. Like someone who gives a damn. That's everything. You have to care. Like, if you don't care enough to get those last few payments or get those couple extra sales that you're just gonna tread water, you're gonna hang out, you're gonna be the same size. I mean, the manager of the store is everything in the location. The bad news is that, and this is the bad news, everybody does the minimum. Some people go above and beyond sometimes. Some people go in above, above, above, and beyond all the time. The bad news is everybody does the minimum to not get fired. But the good news is you, as the leader of the store, or you as a district manager, get to decide what that minimum is. So if your minimum is a dirty store and bad prices, and and you don't really put a lot of time in your people, and but all they got to do is show up in some form of dress and you know, hang looking like however, like that all that stuff is okay with you, then that's what you're gonna get. You're not gonna get any more than that. You have to raise the bar and you have to set a good minimum, right? We're gonna be here on time, you know, just to respect each other's time. We're gonna show up looking like we're on the same team, right? We're gonna show up and we're gonna do the job that we're here to do, and we're gonna help each other all day long. You know what I mean? And if you're not gonna do that, then not gonna be here. You're not gonna be on this team, not very much, right? It's addition by subtraction. Every store is a rowboat, you got everybody rowing in the same direction. Five people. You got one lazy ass in the back that's got his door whore dragging in the water, spinning you in circles. Like, you know, you gotta kick them overboard. You got to. You know, it's to the people on the top to hold the people on the bottom accountable. You know what I mean? Like it you're never gonna go any far if everybody can look around and go, well, that guy's still here, so I'm good. Right. Unfortunately, that you can't have that, right? Like, you just can't. But I'd say the attribute that I look for most is they they care. They care about their people, they care about their results, they care about their name, they care about you know what they produce with a company and and the parts that they play, you know what I mean. And if they don't, they just they're just gonna be some spot filler, you know what I mean, as long as they can row in the right direction.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

So multi-unit is a completely different managerial ball game than a general manager, right? You like you said, four walls. You come in, you manage your four walls, and you know what's crazy is when when Danny and I first started out, Danny actually used to be my DM. And he would come in, he would talk to me, and we would talk about different things. And I for many a conversation I had, Danny, I have no idea what's going on in that store. Like I got four walls, and I whether they're doing good or not, I only want to know where my name is on the list and how well I'm doing. And he really kind of helped me see that it was a bigger playing field, right? So I think that's kind of helped me get here. But I I was like that. I was like four walls, man. I've got four walls, and there's a door on that one, and there's a door on that one. You can either come in that one or you can go out that one.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

And so I I think I managed it really well. Well, come to find out, multi-unit like woke me up. Like, wake up like a fish in the face, you know, like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

I describe when I people I describe it to people like it's have you ever seen on like the old oldie time TV shows where the guy would be spinning plates on sticks? Yeah, so you get the you get the plate on top of the stick and you and you start spinning, you're spinning as hard as you can, so it's spinning real fast, and then you go to the next one and you get another one going, you get another one going. But the only problem with this job is that the plates are 40 miles away from each other. And you gotta start when they like it, no matter how hard you spin it, you're gonna it's gonna start wobbling at some point. You gotta be there to kind of just catch an intro. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, before it crashes on the ground, right? Right. And just put a little more love into it, put a little more time into it. And you gotta everybody pays, usually in a in a multi-unit situation, they split your salary, right? So you're really working for them. You're part, you're a spot on their PL. Believe me, I hear about it uh when when they we would go over the PL, I was like, eh, yeah, it is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

So how do you prepare a GM that you know, okay, this guy's probably the next guy? He's doing a great job, right? So you're having your advisory from above, and and you're looking for the next guy, and they're like, hey, Jason, you've promoted these guys, he's probably gonna be one of the next guys. How do you get that GM to go drop the four walls? And this is gonna help you be successful. What direction do you point them in? And how does that really look like?

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Well, first of all, the good thing about a good manager is that their drug their store is usually gonna run without them sitting in it all day. Otherwise, it wouldn't be even worth considering, right? Like if you can't be out for a couple of days helping me at a different location or mentoring a struggling store manager or a brand new store manager, then your your operation's probably not gonna be strong enough to run for you after you get promoted either, right? So the whole thing is it also helps them kind of stand out and show that, like, yeah, you know, he's he's always out, he's doing audits, he's helping me with this visit or that visit, you know what I mean? And we we work together or we can be in two places at one time, you know what I mean, and communicate all day. Well, what do you think? What do you see? Uh yeah, dude, why don't you ask him this? Could show them that, or you know what I mean? Tell them what you do. Most of the time, the uh and the the good thing about that too is that the managers usually will accept that a lot more from the top performance store manager than the district manager, right? There's a theory, and then you have to work really hard when you move up the ladder, right? Like, because there's a perception out there that the further away from the store you get, the more full of crap you get. A lot of times you see, I've seen I've had every kind of boss, I've had every kind of visit, and and I I know that the really, really good ones could walk into a store right now, open it, call a route, call credit, you know, take care of a customer that walks in, switch out a loan, or find them an item they're looking for. The really, really good ones are gonna be able to do that anytime. You know what I mean? They're gonna be able to pitch in, they're gonna be able to lead by example and keep up the speed with the tools they're using. It's really hard. You know what I mean? You can say that there's some positions that that's not that important, but the swoop and poop mentality of some of these some of these big wigs will come in, well, well, I've been here for five minutes and I'm so awesome at this. I know that you're doing this wrong, and now that's your only problem. So hey, you're welcome. And then they leave, and they got no idea of what's really happening in the location. I just wanted to make sure I had those swoop and poop visits come sometimes, and I just never wanted to be that guy. You know what I mean? I never wanted to be the one that just, oh, I know everything. This is what your problem is. All right, all you wait to do is fix it, it's just this. Why don't you try that? Dang, you're welcome, and then they leave. Like that doesn't well, who gets anything out of that? But the best part about the mentoring thing that I would do is I I would say, you know, when I when I run my district, I make it you're on blast. Your performance is on blast. Now everybody can read reports, but I make them a little different. Where you're ranked every day, top to bottom, first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, however long it goes. And this is where you're at. And up here, good things are happening to people. They're getting promoted, they're getting the days off they want. That's where you want to be. In the middle, all right, you know, you're getting there. You can get to come back tomorrow. That's cool. And on the bottom, you can visit, but you can't live there. Right? You just can't. Because I gotta get in there and I gotta find out, okay, what's the issue? What's the problem? Anytime you walk into a store and you want to find out what the problem is, make a list of the things that it's not. Is it because they don't care? Okay, well then stop digging. That's it. Or uh, you know, okay, no, they care. All right, cool. Are they making their calls? Are they are they calling at the time they're supposed to call? No, that's it. Okay, great, great. You gotta keep digging, you gotta keep finding, you gotta go down until you get reached the reach something that either isn't happening or could be better, or something like that, and say, All right, man, try this. This you know what I made a mistake like that. I understand. Just do this for me, see if it works, try it out. You know what I mean? We already tried what you're doing, so obviously. But my job is to get those people to the middle, to the front, and I'd never expect anybody to get from the bottom to the top next week, right? Like you gotta I'll I if you set that kind of goal, you might as well it's you're not gonna get anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

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SPEAKER_00 23:56

And now, back to the show. Sometimes when you're some someone's way off their credit standard, I don't know what you guys do, but what I do is you gotta beat last week, man. You gotta you gotta find out what was last Friday? All right, where'd you close at? Where'd you open at? What was this at? All right, can you beat this? We will talk about the standard when we can get it there. But I need you to at least show me some improvement week over week because I need you to go be, I just need you to out hustle the person. If you're in eighth place, I need you to out-hustle the person in seventh place. Seventh place. Let's worry about that. Let's outwork them. Then we get up to the next one, and you can just climb all the way to the top and just think about how awesome it's gonna feel when you're up at number one, you know, looking down at all these people that were looking down at you. And then if you can and you can foster that by a little moving their goalpost just a little bit closer. Hey man, I can you can you kill her fit can you kill her percent today? Give me a percent of those reds. Just one. All right. If you do that, we're gonna call it, we're gonna high-five each other at the end of the day, even though you're you're higher than giraffe ass. We're gonna we're gonna celebrate that you move that percent, right? And we're gonna make sure that you you go home feeling like you got it done. And then tomorrow we're gonna try it again, and then we're gonna go a little bit harder. We're going a little bit harder. You gotta nurture that stuff, you gotta bring them out of it. And then there's the people that just won't. Just flat out won't. They're in the back of the boat, just spinning me in circles. I mean, if you don't care enough to get your name out of the mud from here to here, I'm not gonna put my name down here in the mud with you. Like, I'm gonna do everything in my power. I'm gonna give you every bit of knowledge I have, I'm gonna give you every trick I ever learned. I'm gonna try everything I possibly can to get you to go where we need to go because we're both gonna win when you do. But if we don't, I can't wait forever. And I owe it to the people on your team and I owe it to the people in my district to not have you weighing us down. You know what I mean? And maybe you'd be better in this. And maybe look, look, they got promoted to a manager somehow, right? Maybe they're a great sales manager, maybe there were great, maybe many great districts are great store managers, but weren't great districts, and that's okay. Because you can make a great living as a store manager. Have your four walls like you talked about. Right. If you have a successful store, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Oh, yeah, it's the best. There's nothing better than that. So you sound like you've got it down. You sound like you've been doing this for a long time, right? Sure. Yeah. So what would you what would you say Jason's top three strengths are? Because you seem to have an idea of how you run it. You seem to have an idea of exactly the way you want to structure it so that you can point out the flaws, get those fixed, train, and power. What are your three in your mind, in your in your heart of hearts, what is your your your three top?

SPEAKER_00 26:46

I think I guess if I had to put it all like that, I would say I can make information easy to digest. I have a joke or a story, a funny story, or something that that gets a point across in this business over, or it's usually a mistake or a time that I did it wrong, right? 99% of the time, it's some way that I screwed up. It's something that I did that was stupid, right? And that and then the bad fallout that came from that, or how much I suffered while it was going on. And I can make a I usually, if there's a new thing that comes along, I can usually sell it. Like I can usually sell the benefit of it. There's a book out there called Start with Why by Simon Sinek. Simon Sinek, I love that guy. Yeah, he's Start with Why is it you gotta know what motivates everybody, right? And I think I have a knack for figuring out why someone does what they do and what levers I have to pull to try to get them to feel themselves that they gotta do whatever I'm trying to get them to do. And if they trust you and they have to build that trust, like they know that I have their best interests at heart. Like I'm here to help you. My I'm getting paid on the bottom of my paycheck, it has a four line, and it doesn't say missing standards and not selling and everything. But my what my four line now says help the store managers be successful, and that's what I get paid to do. You're part of your budget is to come coming into my pocket and my family so that I can come in here and give you every bit of knowledge that I have to help you get to the highest possible place that you can get. And I'd say just being able to bring out of people their best comes from knowledge, just making sure that they understand that they're safe, they can make a mistake, they can they can try stuff out, you know what I mean, and not get in trouble, right? There's no mistake that we can't fix. There's probably no mistake that you could even make that I didn't make twice, and it's okay, you know what I mean? You're not gonna get in trouble. I might say, hey man, next time, maybe don't do that, right? Warning shot. Let's try it, let's try it. Next time you're in this scenario, but if you lead with your gut and you know, you know what the right thing is, right? And you gotta do the right thing. And if you'll never get in trouble for doing the right thing, if you thought it was the right thing, you can justify the fact, hey, this is what I thought I should have done in that scenario. All right, well, next time I I think there's a better way, right? And you can do that. But as far as my three best strengths, it's really tough to list them, but I'd say that I can I can kind of come conversate and make people feel at ease and make people people feel safe enough to open up, tell me what the problem really is, you know what I mean, and then also just get information and find a way to trigger that that thing inside of that person because I can't do anything on a visit that they're gonna have to do seven days a week after that, you know, six days a week after that. They have to want to do it. I have to make them, I have to figure out how they are ticking. You know, I mean, some guy, like uh my my my one of my mentors, Michael Drawn, who who promoted me to district manager the first time, he taught me that. He said he he had a guy that he couldn't figure out. You know, he'd shout him out, that didn't work, and get him some money, that didn't work. He knew the guy liked fishing. All right, so he he he bought the nice fishing pole that he went to the bait shop and he bought a nice fishing pole and like nice reel and everything. He brought it to the guy and he put it in the corner of his office. He said, I'll tell you what, it's not yours yet, but you can have it. When you get dot dot dot and dot dot dot and this number and that metric, that's yours. Man, just like that. No kidding. He wanted that fishing pole, man. And I learned that, and I I just always remembered that lesson. I learned a lot from that man. That guy was one of the best bosses I do.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

I actually used to work for Michael Drawn back in the day. And of course, he had like half the state of Florida, or pretty much the whole state of Florida, right? But you know, there were several times when he came in, and uh, you know, I I was a knucklehead when I was young, man. I did I did some stuff that uh that really kind of I probably shouldn't have. And uh I remember at a time we were Renter's Choice, it was right before we had acquired Rena Center, and yeah, we had some sit-down conversations, and and at the end of the conversation, I was like, God, how did I not see that? You know what I mean? Like I just, you know, and it wasn't it wasn't a bad thing. I never took it as a as a beatdown. I mean, he just kind of showed me something and I was like, this is the other side of that coin. And it was just like, but I, you know, and I had seen him for several years after that. He kind of set me straight in a way that was, you know, not like, hey, you're you're just completely effing this up, but it's like, look, this is the other side of the coin, right? It was there was he didn't pull much money punches, but yeah, you know, he just kind of let me see like this is why we're doing this, this is where we're trying to get with this. This is the the idea or the whole point of getting your credit down or getting the sales or you know, having customers that'll actually come back and you're not just you know beating them up when you pick them up, you know. Yeah, because I was that guy, I'm not gonna lie, you know, back in the day I I I I was really all about a number. And uh he really kind of got me to see there are people attached to that number.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

And so, you know, repeat business is a big part of what we do. And if you kill the repeat business in a few months, you're gonna see that there's no repeat business. And it really opened my eyes to a lot of things. So I I he was uh is he even doing is he doing this anymore?

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Nah, I have I've not I've not been able to keep up with them um since he left company. Um I wish I I could, to be honest with you. He's a he's a guy that I really meant a lot to me. He he made a lot of difference in my life, you know what I mean? And that was the one thing he always used to tell us was that he what he didn't want us to just be good district manager, he wanted us to be good people, right? So there was there, I I mean I was a mess list, like you know what I mean. Like I even though I made it to district manager, I one time one time he he would send us, like he would he sent me to a Franklin Covey time management seminar, and I'm gonna tell you how bad I needed this thing. I showed up to this seminar with one black shoe and one brown shoe on. So I had I used to buy like the same shoes in black and brown, right? And I would just but I had when I looked down, I was in the middle of this thing, like we're doing our little exercises and this and that, and I'm gonna participate. And then I just looked down and I see that one shoe is black and one shoe is brown, and I was like, man, I need to be I need to be here more than I thought about it. I did, I really needed to be there. And that I I learned a lot in that seminar, actually. He didn't have to do that, you know what I mean? It wasn't like a company thing, like he he ponied up the money to help invest in me to make sure that I I got better at that. That was the thing that I had to get better at, and he figured out a way to make it happen. So that guy was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

No in in in all these years, in these 23 years, would he would you consider him to be the mentor that you had, or was there somebody else that kind of also led the way to help you getting to where you are?

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Man, I'll tell you, I learned a little bit from everybody. You know what I mean? And there's stuff that I learned that I could never it you'd be lucky, like it was like the thing I told you, like these 10 people, they didn't all they weren't all working for me when they got promoted. Maybe they're like the next guy got the promotion, right? But you go through life and you learn a lot. Like I had I've worked for every different kind of boss. There's the kind of boss that if there's a ditch to be dug and there's five shovels and there's five of you with him, you know, he's there's one that's gonna grab that shovel and they're gonna dig just as hard as you know as the rest of you, if not harder, right? Just to kind of show and lead by example. Then there's the boss that'll grab his shovel and then walk behind you and wave it over your head and getting ready to smack the guy that's not shoveling the fast enough, right? I've had the boss that it was like living in a POW camp, and every once in a while he would pick one of us to pull out of the cage and beat the heck out of us in front of everybody else. And we were just happy it wasn't us that day, right? So um, but I learned from those guys too, you know what I mean? Like I learned not to do that in some cases, or I did learn, you know, little bits of pieces of every because nobody got those positions just because you know it was a popularity contest. They usually brought some money to the table, or they brought some success to the people that worked with them. So I would be really hard pressed to put anybody other than Michael out there as my hardcore mentor, right? Like as I just had so many bosses. I worked at three different companies um for a bunch of different people, and a lot of them were awesome, you know what I mean? And I took this from that one and this from that one, and I'm just the the product of all that knowledge that they gave me and all the mistakes that I made, you know, kind of added up to where I was at where I ended up.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

So for the 23 years then, describe that to us. Where did you go? Because you were under the rack umbrella for the whole time, but under different companies under the rack umbrellas, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Yeah, for from 2000, so for I did make it to district manager. I started in 2000 as a as a car, you know, worked my way up to store manager, ran nine different locations, and then I became in 2006, I got promo finally got promoted to district manager um in Orlando in Ocala and everything. So I had a pretty big area there. And then I was that I was district manager for Iraq for oh man, 11 more years, something like that. Um, I went to Acceptance Now for three years. I went to perform to win at Acceptance Now as a district manager. Um, and then Paul called with the opportunity from Impact RTO, which was you know a big franchisee of Renaissance. At the time they were the biggest. Um you know, they've got 80 stores now, but the time they had the, they had just taken on like 40 and doubled their size. And some of them were in Jacksonville, and he offered me the opportunity to go up there, and then I worked there for five years. And then most recently, I had to move back for some family obligations to the other side of the state. So I'm I'm on the market um currently in that neighborhood. Uh as my old stopping stomping grounds for corporate. Um, but yeah, I mean, that was it was all under the rack umbrella, though. You know, I mean, so I've always kind of had the luxuries of the of the mothership and their systems and tools and everything like that. Um, but you know, I'm open to the future and and see what's going on down the road. But I I I I couldn't trade what they provided for my family and the lifestyle that I've been able to provide. I mean, I couldn't, I couldn't be happier about the place that I chose to work.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

I heard you say she made a lot of mistakes. Right. And I and and and I I do believe that experience is the best teacher, regardless of what happens. I think experience is the best teacher. Even if you have a great teacher, if you didn't make a mistake, or if you don't make mistakes because you don't learn from them, then that's going to be the problem, right? You don't make a mistake, you don't learn from it. You can't win all the time and be the best teacher. I think you have to you have to take a beating every once in a while. What's one of those times where you made that decision and you were like, Yeah, I really, I really screwed a pooch on that one. Uh and and more so, what did you learn from it? What did you take out of that craziness of a decision?

SPEAKER_00 38:06

I I I'd taken over a bunch of stores and a lot of them were turds. You know what I mean? Like that was just the you know, that's what it is, right? Now, the the toughest one I ever took over was a thousand accounts, killing it. Wow, right? Just killing it. And the old manager was a tough act to follow, right? Like it it he was a good friend of mine uh at the time, but I disagreed with some of the things that he was doing, right? And I'm not saying they were wrong. At this, like looking back on it, I'm not saying that we're wrong, right? Because look, it was a thousand agreements, it's making a ton of money, right? Something was right. Something was right, something was very right, right? But I was Mr. By the Book. I'm not gonna do these things. I'm not gonna retype these people. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna help them out when they're late. I'm gonna do this, they're gonna pay me on time, I'm gonna not, you know, I'm not gonna run this two-day payment garbage, right? Like I would just there was things that there were going on in the store that I thought quote unquote was wrong at the time, right? So Mr. Mr. By the Book quickly lost 200 agreements off of this thousand account store that they were like, what is going on everywhere else? This guy's been, he's been great. What's happened? What is going on? Get over there. And I and I mean I mean, it almost became to the point where I was like, I was down in my own, like, what may what what am I like because the customers play, well, where's so-and-so? Um, yeah, he got promoted, he's not here anymore. I'm here now. Oh, well, I didn't really want like half the stuff at my house in the first place. He was just such a good salesperson that he got him to take it. You know what I mean? And when they struggled to pay, he helped him out. And who's to say he's wrong now? Because the thing that I learned was you can't come in and know right away anything. Like you gotta kind of come in slowly, seek first to understand, then change slowly, right? Like, because these customers were used to running, running a gun and bringing in 20 bucks on Friday, on Saturday night at five o'clock, you know, and making it be okay for their three accounts and this and that. You know, they were used to that. But guess what? He got the money. By the end of the month, he got it.

unknown 40:33

Right?

SPEAKER_00 40:34

That's what I didn't see at the time. I I was dumb as hell. And I'm sitting at I'm I'm all my my whole career was just like rocket, boom, boom, boom, fix this one, fix that one, fix that one. This is my big payoff store. They gave me the big store with the big bonus, and here I am killing this business, right? And I'm sitting at a dining room table with my boss trying to save me from the RD who just wants my head on a plate, right? And luckily he was able to talk him out and let me go, and I did learn that huge lesson at that point that you know there's lots of ways to do this, right? And just because it's not my way doesn't mean it's not a great way. And I actually probably should have I thought it probably could have curtailed the things that I didn't like slowly. Say, all right, well, I know it used to happen, and I'm gonna do it this time, but next time, you know, we're gonna have to do it. But how about we find a different day for you to be due on? And how about we fix this account this way or that way, not just hard line, like it's your fault, Mr. Customer. Like, you know, you're we're not doing that, we're not doing these shenanigans, like, but I learned a hard lesson there that I just like it probably set me back quite a bit, you know what I mean? Like they they probably think, oh, this guy can't handle a bigger opportunity like that. You know what I mean? He's just a small store manager, and once you get that label, it's tough to shake it. And actually, that is what you're either a big source manager or a small store manager, and then you can become a big store manager if you are a store source, small store manager, but you got to change. You know, the manager is gonna manage that store down to the size that it's gonna be, that it's comfortable for them.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

You know, actually, Danny and I did something called the sweet spot, and uh one of our biggest things that we saw going around and talking to a lot of people, and and through the podcast, we saw there are people in their sweet spot, and they will manage it to or up to their sweet spot. Right. And so I think the first thing that we talked about was finding what your sweet spot is, what level of of smur or par or ideal or whatever you have, your rental revenues, and then seeing how you can break that ceiling, right? Because you can bring a store down from 70,000 to 50,000 and in a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

And then you're going, What the heck did I just do? Right. Or you know, you can get a guy who's who's in that fifty thousand dollar store and he's like, Man, I I I can I'm gonna make this work. And then everybody else going, How did you do it? For five years, the store never went anywhere. The guy there was doing, or Gal was doing a great job managing it just because it never grow. And then all of a sudden, three months later, they've been growing three, four thousand dollars a month, and everybody's like, What happened? Because that they weren't in that zone. And it was like that sweet spot, it's it's good to know, hard to break, but a good thing to establish so that you can figure a way around it. Because otherwise you're gonna be stuck in that rut for the rest. Like you said, you're gonna you once you get kind of that mentality of everybody knows yeah, he's gonna manage a $65,000 or $75,000 store or whatever, that's kind of where they tend to leave you. And you start the more you're in it, the more you kind of build those you you build the way you work around you, and then you find it even harder to get out of your own hole. And nobody wants that. I mean, you always want to grill, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:32

If you want to make big money, you gotta do big money making stuff, right? You can't run a big, small, a big store like a small store, or will become a small store. Um, and some you kind of adjust to where you're at, but if you want to you have to constantly be pushing them that there's more people out there. Look, I I heard on the last couple of episodes here, you guys are talking you were talking to um them about and that every store has a thousand customers. Yes. I I would make the case that it's way more than that, right? Probably because. every store that's opened somebody someday back in the yeah back in the past did a bunch of research to say where would we need a store we need an RTO store in this town we need it where is the where's the perfect spot to put it over here is our demographic this is if you look at a pin map you know what I mean like you know this is this is where we want to be right here this is where this is where the people live that are going to be our our target base right someone already did that they say they said we can support a location just by being there the store is going to exist so it's up to us to get it up to the next level the next level but it'd be harder to find if you go out right now into a crowd of people it'd be harder to find somebody who doesn't want a big TV or a nice living room set or beautiful dining room set like you have here right like it'd be harder to find someone who doesn't want a nicer laptop than it is to find someone who doesn't but they're just sitting out there waiting for you to go and find them. Like they gotta you gotta but sitting in the store a lot of people just think they're gonna grow their store just by sitting in it. Well I'm here if they wanted it they'd come get it the the foot traffic it's the foot traffic it's the foot traffic's not here well the foot traffic is not coming in oh my god if I could just know why you're failing because that seems like you would have a lot more time to go to your neighbor and say hey man I know we're neighbors how about this I'm gonna give you a 10% discount just because you're in the same plaza as me. And if you ever need things send them my send someone my way I'll give you a free week on something in my location. You have a break room hey I is there any way I could hang up this flyer in my break room about this neighbor discount that I give hey I see a car apartment complexes over there we got a lot of accounts in there I'm gonna go talk you need to make best friends with the apartment people at the in the off in the office that's where the growth is if the customers aren't coming in go to where they are go to the Walmart apart if how many customers would you have more in your location if you had someone spend six hours a day sitting in front of Walmart handing out a flyer all day long. All day long. Now would that be more or less effective than sitting there making a bunch of telemarketing calls with people who hate telemarketers? Which is a better option you're gonna go to where the customers are you go to the fast food place and put something up in their break room go to the the apartment complexes are they're going up in Daytona you can throw a rock and not hit one going being built right now. What's going to go inside all those apartments furniture appliances technology everything that we have and who has the best way to pay for it we do. So there is zero excuse for a store to not be as big as the manager will make it if the man but it's sitting and waiting for the customers come in is an excellent way to starve.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

Yeah yes I like that statement so taking all these years of knowledge and and and doing like you said is that how we came just so you guys know this story has been around but we're gonna talk about it now is that how you came up with the Jeff'd up story so I haven't heard of the Jeff Up story until I went to FRDA this year, right? And we have FRDA and Paul Mative's doing his thing up front he's talking to us as the FRDA president and we're kind of just going through things and then Jason comes up and he's got his section of doing the Jeff'd up story which makes a whole lot of sense uh especially talking to you more now describe to us a little bit about I don't want to go into the whole thing you can if you want to but like what where did the Jeff up story come from and how did that how did you come up and say yeah I need to put this in a story from where everybody can go yeah that's it that's it the the story was born one day when I was at a store and I saw this big scratch right up the middle of this brand new dyne ed set right I see this big scratch and I'm looking at the manager and his name was Brooks and I said Brooks what the heck happened to this table the the table man and then he just took his hand and he pointed right at he pointed right at the scratch he said he jeffed it I said what do you mean he jeffed it?

SPEAKER_00 48:06

What does that even mean? He's like anytime this guy touches anything he's got hatchet hands he's like packing up all the furniture in here he's breaking he's scratching he's scratching all the appliances he's done them up I mean the guys that's like I'm paying him just to destroy this place. And I was like man that's right because now what are we gonna have to do right? We're gonna have to drop the price on this dynamic. We can't ask for the same price. No not even close. Because who's gonna want this thing to someone that's gonna want it cheap right and but custom stores store managers didn't they don't understand that the the the impact that that has on their depreciation right so I knew that they didn't understand that because all they did all day was just slap the tag out of the computer that said whatever it said right the computer doesn't have a nose it doesn't have eyeballs it doesn't it can't smell the farts that are in the cushions of that couch that you got right there. They got it you have to make you you got to make sure that you're putting a price on the product because what is what is the RTO industry that has this bad reputation right what is it?

SPEAKER_01 49:04

It's the product that comes back that now you're trying to sell for a price ripoff.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Yeah right it's a rip-off that's what they say it's a rip-off well if you're just slapping the tag out of the computer onto the $1500 tag on the scratch dionette yeah I can see why people would get that impression right yeah now what I wanted to do was try to teach that to the people that basically you got to price things based on condition and if you don't and if you allow things to get damaged and then just put them out there you're also I wanted to show the damage that that could do to your PL. Like if you have to constantly reduce and reduce and reduce and reduce prices you're not gonna reduce the you know the cost of those things doesn't go down like that. Right. Just the cost that just the amount of money that you're gonna collect from it. So that Jeffree story was born and basically it was just about a guy who's it was a great delivery guy and the guy was he had talent right like he wasn't terrible he just wasn't as careful as he needed to be didn't use the tools that we provided to make sure that the merchandise made it to the customer's house safely and if it did he definitely didn't care about it. Um but I would but it but in some point I would like we would be cheering him on and I I would cheer like go Jeff go you know and he would go out and get five stops done like you can't even get five stops done in a day nowadays. We used to do them before lunch. Right. When you and I were in the truck sweating in the white shirt and ties but it but nowadays it's tough to get them done even with the GPS and everything that they had we had the big map book and we had to find L5.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

I missed them you know you could always tell a good driver's book because he knew where his map was and like he knew those are the bird names those are the those are the president names right is that over in that like they know where it was and I I I missed the days because as I was delivering I always had like a condensed route book so I could like I I'm over here two streets down is you know that house that I need to see you know and I would see it going I would see it coming um just to see if if if they were there or whatever the case was but I so when you got when you were when the when you came up with the Jeff Dub story and you came up with the depreciation and how it affects your PLs and how it affects the store did how did you present that to the people did you get us to sit them all down and just say this is the story of the Jeff Dub story.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

I just made a PowerPoint and you know found a picture of a guy that on you know Google that I ripped off and screen capped it. You can still see the watermarks behind it.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

You can still see the watermarks on it.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

And it's got two thumbs up yeah big smile the guy was a nice guy you know what I mean and he didn't know the damage how bad he was hurting the business you know if he did he probably would stop and that's how we ended up saving that guy you know what I mean and showing him and then the thing about the blankets and the strap you know you always hear about it hopefully you hear about it all the time at the store. If you watch a guy just grab something with the dial it across the floor you know scrape it on the floor and you don't say nothing man. You're just silently approving that and that's how it's going to be and that's okay. You got to stop him every time. And again it's like I said earlier you got to show them why you got to tell them why this is killing us and that that was the best way to get my drivers to understand like look you know you got to take care of this merchandise. And if you've ever gotten anything delivered to your house it's a big deal that day for that customer right like the customer is like can't wait for that new dining room table to get here today. You know what I mean it's gonna you know and they're excited about their bedroom set that they're getting delivered that they've been you know they finally got their wife or their husband to agree to let them buy right and they're waiting in the guy I'm gonna be there between two and four okay great that's great two and four I'm so excited I'm gonna be watching TV high five and they get all mad and then you know what happens guys show up late they don't call right they just they they they say ah where you want and they drag it in they got it in boxes like I look one thing you cannot deliver bedroom sets in boxes man you can't what are you doing? You're gonna spend two hours at the store at this house unboxing everything with the handles alone handles alone will take you forever handles on it then you get to the last box and you open it up and the mirror is broken and you just did all that building and all that styrofoam is blowing around in their yard and everything and then you just and then they go yeah I don't want it man and you gotta just drag it all back out. Now if you built it the day before you know what I mean and and you said hey oh I was opening up the boxes we were putting your bedroom together open it up the mirror's bucket I already looked at it it's gonna take about two weeks to get the mirror in do you want me to bring the rest of this stuff or do you you know what I mean? Oh yeah that that'd be great. And then when they show up they put the door jam protector on the door which most people have never seen one of those but the customer's like what is this oh that's just to make sure I don't damage your brand new beautiful bedroom scent or your door jam right here. I don't want to scrape it up or scratch it. So and then you can bring it in with a blanket and a rubber band wrapped around it and you unveil it in the bedroom where they want it. And then you put you know it's all put together though they can pull the drawers in and out then you take and put the mirror on and you wiped off your fingerprints and you just you put everything in your the little tip over thing you go you ask if you want to put that on which guy has a better chance of having that customer give him some money for lunch that day and if I get a pizza delivered to my house and the guy shows up in a reasonable amount of time I'm gonna give him five seven bucks something like that. But what am I gonna give a guy that just brought my living room set up three flights of stairs if it made it safely they were professional they were able to explain my contract to me which we get in get into that like that that's a whole new thing. Yeah but you know did they take care of what I'm gonna be spending who knows how much to pay this off and how many time how much time is are we going to be working together to do that. If we don't deserve the money right off the rip because we just slapped it in the house or we didn't put it together or we didn't put the hook the TV up to make sure it wasn't cracked before we left all those things add up to the a bad business and a bad reputation and no customers you know what I mean so the Jeffree story was put together to kind of get the guys to understand like look if if you put more of yourself into this you're gonna get more out and if you do it right the first time you're not gonna have to go back and the custom the day's gonna go smooth. You're not gonna have people angry at you all the time and then when I call them in a couple of weeks when that first payment's due they're not gonna be like oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:45

As always the RTO show is proud to be sponsored by the Association of Progressive Rental Organizations. APRO is consistently participating educating and watching candidly over the RTO industry and has been doing so since 1980. Keep track of the current and future events meetings and legislative gatherings by going to the website at rtohq.com and while you're there don't forget to subscribe to the RTOHQ magazine and newsletter. Also if you're not a member find out how to become one online at rtohq.com And that is the end of part one to the Jason Winners podcast. Tune in next week for part two of the podcast as always follow us on social media on Facebook and Instagram just look us up at the RTO show. Also if you want to reach out to me it is Pete at the rto show podcast dot com or if you want to go online and check us out it's www dotrto show podcast dot com. And remember you can always find us anywhere that you listen to podcasts, whether it be Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or anywhere you guys get your podcasts, just make sure that you subscribe so that you guys don't miss an episode. Thank you so much and as always keep your credit low to get your sales high we'll see you next week