Building Customer Loyalty: From First Hello to Final Payment with Jason Winters

Why are so many rent to own customers paying off agreements and never coming back?

In this episode of The RTO Show, Pete Shau and Jason Winters break down the real drivers behind payout conversion, customer retention, and long term rent to own loyalty.

This conversation explores rent to own sales strategy, PIF conversion tactics, EPO conversion rates, customer experience management, and operational systems that help stores keep customers engaged beyond the end of an agreement. From delivery service and showroom presentation to loyalty programs and referral marketing, this episode gives RTO operators practical ways to improve conversion rates and grow recurring revenue.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why payout conversion starts on day one of the customer experience and not at the end of the agreement
• How rent to own stores can improve PIF and EPO conversion rates through service, follow up, and operational consistency
• The role customer loyalty programs, referral incentives, and relationship marketing play in customer retention
• How product bundling, upselling, and wishlist selling create stronger rent to own sales opportunities
• Why delivery experience, store presentation, and service recovery directly impact repeat business and customer lifetime value
• How successful rent to own stores create systems that increase customer trust, ownership rates, and long term retention

Episode Highlights:

• 02:21 – Why rent to own conversion rates are struggling in today’s economy
• 04:14 – The 90 day process for improving payout conversions before agreements end
• 05:00 – How delivery experience shapes customer loyalty and repeat business
• 10:30 – Why top performing stores focus on ownership and customer relationships
• 14:16 – The importance of staying connected during the final 90 days of an agreement
• 20:36 – How loyalty programs and customer rewards could reshape the RTO industry
• 27:24 – Why high payout rates are one of the strongest indicators of a successful rent to own store
• 30:17 – How bundling products and building room packages improves sales conversions
• 35:41 – The hidden operational problems that destroy customer retention and referrals
• 44:03 – Why great service recovery matters more than sales tricks at the end of the agreement
• 56:12 – The powerful customer service lesson behind a simple pair of white gloves

Meet the Guest:

Jason Winters brings years of rent to own operational experience and shares frontline insights on customer service, payout conversions, delivery systems, and sales performance.

Tools, Frameworks, or Strategies Mentioned:

• PIF conversion strategy
• EPO conversion process
• 90 day customer retention workflow
• Wishlist selling techniques
• Product bundling and package selling
• Referral based customer acquisition
• Loyalty and rewards program concepts
• Customer service recovery systems
• Store presentation and merchandising strategy
• Delivery experience optimization
• Rent to own customer lifecycle management
• Retention focused operational processes

Closing Insight:

Customers already want the products. The real question is whether they want to keep doing business with you.

The stores with the strongest payout conversion rates are usually the stores that create trust, solve problems quickly, and deliver a customer experience worth coming back for. In rent to own, relationships still matter.

Transcript

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Tackling Conversion Challenges

Pete Shau 1:22

Hello , welcome to the RTO Show . I'm your host Pete Shau . Today we're talking rent-to-own with my man , jason Winters . He's co-hosting with me today and we're talking operations , as usual , because this is something that I feel like I love when we get back to these things . I love it when we get back to the day-to-day and say , hey , you know what , this is really the bread and butter of what it's all about , and I love meeting . We get back to these things . I love it when we get back to the day-to-day and say , hey , you know what , this is really the bread and butter of what it's all about , and I love meeting people and I love talking to the VPs and I love talking to CEOs and all the big guys . But , honestly , this is for the GMs man , this is for the salespeople that are listening and really just need to understand , like , how do I do that ? How do I do that better ? And I'm not going to sit in front of you for three hours with some video and go this is how you do it . I'm just going to have some real conversations with Jason , who's been doing this for years and years and years , and I think together we have two whole years of rent . I don't know , I'm just kidding , but we have , we've been doing it , and something that we've always said in the past is , I think we've learned by mistakes . We've really kind of paid that toll and so hopefully , if we can have you make less and less mistakes and kind of learn from what we're doing , by all means we want to do that , and one of the things that we talked about that we were just I've seen over and over again probably something that's on the newer end , on the on the happening now end of what's going on , is our conversion rate in the rent-owned industry is not where it could be .

Pete Shau 2:33

Now I'm not saying everybody , not saying everybody . I've seen a couple of companies that are doing all right . I've seen more companies not doing all right than doing all right , and you know there's a lot of reasons for that . You know you've got economic reasons . People's dollars aren't going as far , even if they have a job . Some people don't have a job . The economy is a little bit . You know it's a little bit hard when you're paying for groceries . Your grocery bill goes up by $50 a week and you're trying to still figure out your wants and needs . And so if you have something from rent to own , what do you do ? You get to the end of it . You want to get rid of it . And the question is , when you're talking about the wants and needs and you're talking about getting ahead because we have to have the salespeople out there who are aggressive enough to say we don't want to push or force a sale , but if there's something out there that we can get , there is still some expendable income out there how are we going to make it through our days ? Because the truth is , this is how we feed our families . So how do we get better at it ?

Pete Shau 3:26

Jason , when we're talking about closing sales , when we're talking about the PIF conversion , the number one thing is and when I say PIF , just that we're all on the thing is paid in full and early purchase option . The early purchase option is paid out during your cash . You know they're in a cash segment of your agreement , whether it be three months , six months , 12 months . I've even seen on some I'm not going to mention who that is , but they have a 12 month , same as cash , agreement , and so now they're coming to the end of that . Whether they decided to surprise you and say hey , you know what I'm calling in today , I'm paying it out , I'm out of here , or , if you know that they're coming up , paid in full . Basically they took the agreement and they rode that sucker all out for 24 months and now you know that they're coming up .

Pete Shau 4:01

I mean , the first thing I'm going to tell you is where is the first point of contact on converting a PIF ? And I got to say it's like in my book , in my life , it's 90 days out . That's when you really start looking at the PIFs , the early purchase options . They're kind of hard to square off because you could have a guy the day before his early purchase option comes in , he still drops a grand and he's out . So when you're talking about constant marketing , that's always got to be out there . But on the piff side I say it starts 90 days out . I mean , I think that's a decent part where you start saying you know what I need to get in this person's ear because I don't want them to walk away 90 days is good .

Jason Winter 4:46

I think it's more important to have a process that you do to try to mitigate it . But I mean you could make an argument that it starts at the delivery . Yes , you know what I mean . How'd that delivery go ? Did the delivery guy do a great job ? Did they take care of the merchandise ? Did they bring it ? That's the thing . I think that the delivery sets up so much nowadays , especially now , because that delivery person might be the only person that that customer even sees , since they can do the whole process online .

Pete Shau 5:23

They can make their payments automatically .

Jason Winter 5:25

They do it either , you know , probably auto pay or on the phone or something like that . They're not even interacting like they used to . So maybe that is contributing to , uh , to why people aren't converting as they , as they used to . But I I mean you always hear the same thing at the end of every payout . You know , I just need to take a break . I need to take a break . It feels good . It feels good to pay something off and then to know that you're right back on the hook . It's tough . It's tough to overcome , but I think you know the service that they get will indicate whether or not at least you're giving yourself a chance to get that .

Jason Winter 6:03

Did they have a service problem in the time that they were paying the contract out , and how did you handle it ? Did you come over right away ? Did you fix it in a satisfactory way ? I don't even . Did you get a loaner ? I guess I mean , I don't like loaners myself . I hate loaners . I think that why would I want to have to inconvenience this customer twice if I could just do a switch out with a similar item , right , maybe one that's even a little bit nicer , just to make sure that they're happy and take care of the issue and move forward .

Jason Winter 6:32

How you handle that could determine whether or not you're going to get a conversion , could determine whether or not you're going to get a conversion . You have to keep yourself in the game and you have to . They can get this stuff anywhere . You know what I mean . There's more and more options . There's more and more places they can try out . If there was anything that soured them on your service , why would they give you their business again ? So it's really like checking in with the customer throughout the entire rental and throughout the entire agreement just to make sure that you're doing everything that you possibly can to make sure they have a good experience . That's number one . I think that if you look at your stores and if you have a bunch of stores and you look at them and you see the ones that have a high conversion rate , when you go there , you can see why . You can see that the store looks great , the merchandise is moving , it's got all the parts and all the things that aren't there on order .

Pete Shau 7:24

Everything is being refurbished pretty quickly . Well , the goal is to say I want to keep doing business with you .

Jason Winter 7:28

Right , and why would they do that ? What reason have you given them to do that ? So , before we can think of some magic spell that's going to make someone convert , what are they converting to ? Are they converting to more meh service or are they converting ?

Pete Shau 7:44

to the top notch , the meh service , I mean that's the biggest problem is meh like .

Jason Winter 7:51

It's meh like you got you got stores like I'm sure every company usually has a way to kind of tell what you said Google earlier and that's a great way to kind of tell how the store is doing . Other store , other companies have different ways to kind of keep track of how happy their customers are . You know they get they put reviews in . Who puts in reviews ? People that feel strongly one way or the other .

Jason Winter 8:13

And in our business there's a lot of reasons sometimes that people would put in a bad review , like you know , and it doesn't mean that we did anything wrong per se . Maybe they didn't like that they had to pay for it in the way that we needed them to pay for it , right . Maybe they didn't get explained the right . You know how this whole thing is and what rental means and all that stuff to begin with , and they just thought it was some Amazon thing . They clicked on and it showed up and that was so easy that you know now he's now he's talking about I'm late , I need the payment and all that they're going to put in a bad review .

Jason Winter 8:45

Yeah , people that get extra wow service , they're going to put in a review . Hopefully right . And then what's going to make it or break it , or tell you whether you have a really good store or an okay store , is how many of those people that are like it was all right .

Jason Winter 9:03

Like you know , they kind of they told me a time and they were kind of there on time and that was . You know it was nice enough I guess , and you know he could have cleaned it , but you know whatever you know like those are the ones you live and die by that .

Jason Winter 9:18

Those are the ones that , if you can turn more of those into fans and people that are , because if the only people that feel strongly about your store are the ones that had a bad experience , then it's going to drown out . You failed All of the good .

Jason Winter 9:33

Yeah , it is , you have to have more of the meh people kind of like , in order to kind of drown out the bad . There's going to be bad . Every Google review . It's not five-star Google review . If you look around , almost no one's got five stars . Five stars this is a five-star business . It's very , and if it does , it's got like six reviews .

Pete Shau 9:52

Well , I mean because you have those people who didn't have that experience and it's always back . I mean it's great to say that because , starting in the beginning , all the way through the relationship , all the way to the end , what reason am I giving you to come back ? Right , what reason ? Not only am I giving you a reason to come back , because the conversion rate is this . The conversion is I have somebody who has a current agreement and I need to get them on another agreement as they are paying out when they pay out or right after they pay out . That's the conversion is how am I converting them into a new agreement ? And being in the beginning is huge .

Jason Winter 10:30

So ideally they would convert before they leave , right , or you know what I mean Ideally . And you can do all kinds of stuff Like , like you know , if the payout is really low , maybe you take care of it for them and just to get them to pay on the new thing . You know I mean , and I've seen a lot of stores handle it great , like they got , you know , on the wall . They got this huge wall of pictures of them with their customers , with their ownership paperwork . You know what I mean and they take it seriously . Those stores are going to convert more because it's their thing , like if you focus on something . That's why what I said earlier , like you said , 60 days , 60 days is my day Great . That means that you at least are focusing on it 60 days out . Maybe you're trying to get a wish list item .

Pete Shau 11:10

So what do you start thinking about next ? What 90 days ? Yes , yes .

Jason Winter 11:13

Yeah .

Pete Shau 11:19

I mean , if they're not inclined to do it ahead of time , it doesn't make it any easier at 90 days or 60 days , because if you don't look good , what is it that they say ? If you don't look good , we don't look good . If you don't look good , then they might have already made up their mind , whether it's on the 90th day or whether it's on the last day , that they don't want to do business with you .

When to Start the Conversion Process

Pete Shau 12:37

But they've invested enough time and money to say I at least want to get through this transaction . That's the part that I don't like is like , if they can just say I at least done this and I'm going to do enough business with you to stop . I don't want you to come get it , I don't want to have legal issues , I don't want somebody knocking on my door , I don't want somebody calling my references , I just want to get through this until it's over . Well then , you failed , you've got to be on point from the get-go . But I do like the process of saying , okay , we've made it this far , what are we doing now ? And the idea of a PIV is completely different than an EPO , because as an early purchase option comes which number one , I think they're always shotgun , unless you have somebody that's actually taking the payments and dividing it up and you know that it's going to come , because that's the way Juan pays it all out . You know , those are usually a little bit more shotgun , a little bit more . I need to . I need to be on my A game every single day because when that guy comes in , if that guy or gal comes in and decides to pay it off now I need to know how to , how to throw up these . What are we doing ? How am I going to handle this ? And then you got the PI . You know the PIF , the paid in full . That's like . I have a little bit of time . I'm going to call you , I'm going to invest in you , I'm going to definitely , if I haven't been doing this all this month , for the last three months , I'm definitely going to make sure you don't have a birthday in that timeframe . Or if there's a special day and when I say special day you might not know everybody's special day , but February 14th is a special day for everybody . Christmas is a special day for everybody . Black Friday is a special day for everybody . July 4th is a special day for everybody .

Pete Shau 13:54

You're covering three months . There's only four different three months in a year . So you're going to find something that works . So , if you don't have a birthday , you don't have something . You got to follow that point of reference and go hey , I need to get in your ear , I need you to remember me . And there's something that has to happen . When these last 90 days , last 60 days , last 30 days where you're going to go well , matt , you don't remember , that was a pretty cool thing that that person did Then you're opening up that conversation because the truth is you're you're going to live and die by what you have done and and you know it's , it's where everyone in your store has done Well , and it's a .

Jason Winter 14:28

it's a team sport .

Pete Shau 14:29

So you know , somebody said to me one time have you ever tried the upgrade ? And I've tried that before . I don't know if it works as good as it used to . I mean , a lot of people are like , yeah , I have 50-inch , I don't know if I want to go to 65-inch , go straight into paying for it . But one thing that I did like doing , and it might work . I'm not saying that it doesn't .

Pete Shau 14:46

What we , what we used to call it is gifting . All right , you paid this off , we're going to give it to you . Why would I do that ? Because , dude , we've got this . I never like using the word upgrade because I don't want them to feel like they just paid something for it . They paid all this into it and it's not good enough . So when are we gifting that one ? Who are you blessing this amazing thing with ? Well , why would I do that ? Well , because this living room has USBs and LEDs and it opens up by itself and it's got some cup holders . And you know , I mean , at the time that you came in , this wasn't available , but now it is . You don't want to be the only guy on the block without it , right ? And so what do you think ?

Pete Shau 15:27

And I really want to get what your thoughts on this is . You've got somebody that's coming at the end of an agreement , whether they're an EPO and they're doing it right at that moment , or they're a PIF and they're coming into that moment . What is too much ? When you gift them on a new agreement , like some people go OK , I give them $100 . I give them $100 , right , I have a $100 gift card and they can have anything . Some people are like no , you got to give them a month . They get a month down , everybody gets a month . Is there a line that you would draw Because there could be a problem , said either way ? Well , if you don't give it to them and you know that they're going to pay out , why wouldn't you ?

Jason Winter 16:05

I mean it's got to be what they could get anywhere else first . If , like , if I could get the same thing somewhere else without having you know what I mean , it needs to be special . I think , um , I still don't , I don't know if it's a gimmick type thing that's going to make the difference . I just I really do think it's all about how they felt about doing business with you , how the service went and everything I can't control . Everybody wants a break from a payment . I've paid stuff off . I was super excited about it , and the part that I was excited about was I didn't have that payment anymore . So it's pretty tough to overcome that .

Pete Shau 16:44

But guess what ? That's a number one . I mean , what money did you pocket ? That's number one .

Jason Winter 16:51

And you can't even . I don't even know if it's that instant conversion is awesome when it happens , but it's just so rare it's very tough to overcome . Like my bills are gone . That bill is gone . Now I have more money for the rest of my bills , and when you talked about it earlier , everything is kind of tightening up at certain times a year or right now or whatever . It's a tough thing . I think the best thing you can hope to do , like I'd say you could give a month up front Great , that's like kind of the going thing , right , you get a free month . On the next thing , there's your break . You got four weeks off of not having to pay anything . That's pretty good . That's a way to overcome the objection . But are you going to ? Okay , let's say they don't convert , what are you doing ? Are they just gone ?

Pete Shau 17:39

Are you calling them in a month or after they ?

Jason Winter 17:41

had their break . When they say they had a break , what kind of break are you talking ? Like month to month ? I don't know . Four months , okay , four months , all right . Are you putting them on a calendar four months from now that says , hey , it's been four , you had that break . How's that break been going ? That's great . I was just calling back because you said that you had wanted a break and that about three , four months down the road it's been three , four months . How many of those calls are happening ? How many of those are actually getting logged for follow-up ?

Pete Shau 18:10

Well , that's a great question , Gino , because a lot of the time when you're talking about conversions , you're usually talking about a conversion within the same 30 or 60 days , I think .

Pete Shau 18:19

I guess it depends because sometimes , depending on the business or how you run it , once you convert that month and that customer has been out on the books as you bring them back on , they're considered a new customer because they weren't on the books . So we don't , sometimes in our head , we don't consider that a conversion , even though it is a conversion right . So let's say that we're doing it by the book , we're just doing whatever the computer tells us is a conversion , and whether it's in the same 30 days , whether it's in the 60 days , but let's just say it's in the same month and we convert it . I think part of the idea is that if we're going to keep them loyal to us , how loyal have we been to them ? Yep .

Pete Shau 18:56

Another thing that I think is super important is when a customer pays out . That's the worst time to introduce them into something that they could have taken advantage of way earlier . You want a customer that's really upset . Tell them that they didn't have the club at the end of their agreement and something bad happened . We live in the state of Florida . Tell them that you know what I should have called you and said you know this is going to be the situation you know , I think , and BMS has done something that , or Benefit Marketing Solution has done something crazy , and they're even covering , in some situations , damage in televisions . That was something that was never , that was . That's like a ground . That's one of those groundbreaking things . You know , very recently I was talking to Leonard Alonzo from JLR and he , you know , he mentioned mattress encasements and , you know , a little light went off . I remember when that came out , I it is a big thing . I mean . I mean , nowadays it's like you're getting a , you're getting a mattress without one .

Jason Winter 19:50

without one , it's almost like what .

Pete Shau 19:52

So , as they did that , it was one of those groundbreaking things where it's like , wow , that's really awesome . Let me not tell you about that , as you're having to pay off this TV that you broke whenever you broke it , and then I tell you you know what you could have had ? This deal , investing in those situations so much earlier is so much important to it's so important to those conversion rates and it's so important to invest in your own products . Don't something Paul said I'm going to go into another Paul-isms but stick to the agreement . Stick to the agreement . And it was like if I have it available , stick to it . Say it , give those things up and let them know that it's so important because if you want those conversions , they have to come back for a reason . That was one of the things too .

Pete Shau 20:39

What about

Service Quality and Customer Experience

Pete Shau 20:40

loyalty programs ? I think it's so hard in rent to own because I've man . I've heard so many people like we can do it , but we can't and it's hard . And how do you rate somebody who has an EPO versus a PIV ? Right , so you have an early purchase option on somebody who has it in the same as cash range , who invested the same as cash money and this is the talking point . Or you have somebody who paid in full , which they do have ownership and agreement , but they've been way longer with you . Do you grade those guys differently ? The answer to me is I don't know .

Pete Shau 21:13

I think I'm going to defer somebody , because here's the way I look at it in a loyalty program , because to me , if you pay it out , you pay it out . But is it a more point-driven system ? Is it a more discount-driven system because you've invested more time and invested more money ? Do you get more of a payout credit because you've gone longer or not gone longer ? Those are the questions that come up when I've talked to a lot of people about loyalty programs and the rental-owned business and they're like well , how do you judge that ? Do you judge somebody who's , let's say , had a rental right ? They didn't own it , they rented it .

Pete Shau 21:46

The average timeframe is between three and four months . It just depends on where you are in the country and how long . Summertime might be less , wintertime might be more . You never know . It could be up and down . And so what do I say to somebody who's invested three months into it and I invested in somebody who's 10 months into it ? They both have a product that came back , it's rentable , they both put money into it , but one's put more time into this product than another . Do you treat them differently in a loyalty program ? I don't know . But if you're talking about retention , if you're talking about payout programs . How do you incentivize them in those particular ways , not just like hey , I'm going to give you a month free or hey , I'm going to give you $100 off , but is there a point program you say , hey , you've paid off , you're a diamond customer , right , you're gold You're a diamond .

Jason Winter 22:25

You're platinum , you're platinum .

Pete Shau 22:27

You are . This Does that play a big role , do you ?

Jason Winter 22:30

think , are we missing the boat on that ? I do , I do . I think that I'm going to tell you , like just for myself , like I order . We order food from a few different places , a lot , right , my family , like my kids , love this . My wife wants that .

Pete Shau 22:50

I'm in every single loyalty thing that you can possibly it's stupid easy nowadays to order , isn't it ?

Jason Winter 22:52

Well , yeah , but the other thing is too , is if I'm going to go to Chipotle five times , I'm getting a free burrito , right , right , and that's going to factor in to where I go get that burrito , that's right .

Jason Winter 23:02

Okay , so why would it be any different for us ? So I do think that there is something here that we need to hash out as an industry , and I think there are some out there doing it . There needs to be some loyalty thing , because everybody's doing that now and they work Like I'll go . If I'm going to get something that I wouldn't have got because I was loyal to a company , I'm going to take advantage of it , just to take advantage of it .

Pete Shau 23:29

Just so you know , two years ago I was talking about this in the RTO world about the loyalty program , because I saw this a long time ago and I said , not even just to getting a little bit off the PIF-EPO conversion but how about just Reynolds period ? How about you coming , like you said ? It might really differentiate where I'm going to buy my next product from If I know wait a minute I've got enough points to either have a low down payment or I get a longer same as cash , or if I go over there , I can literally walk in and walk out in five minutes because everything that I have is in there A loyalty program , kind of show my card , hey , I want this , and because I'm a member , I ain't got to do nothing but wait till you get there to sign .

Jason Winter 24:03

Well , not only that , you could have specific events for diamond customers only or where they get special . I mean , we used to have that . People used to take pride in that . We used to have it back in the day and it was a big deal for a while and then they just got away from it , but I don't know why , because I think maybe it didn't work or it started to kind of lose its popularity or whatever . But , yeah , you should reward customers for staying with you and being loyal to you . So , yeah , I think it's a fantastic idea and there should be like tiers or perks or whatever that they can earn by paying on time , or you know what I mean .

Jason Winter 24:40

Like , why not ? Like , why not ? They should be like a whole full-fledged card that has their rent paid into a specific category . Like , we have the technology now . One way that we could use that technology would be to keep track and then they would know . Well , I have $600 in credit towards an appliance at this place and the next time I get an appliance , where am I going to go ? The place that I have $600 credit at ? Like , why wouldn't I go there ? All of the technology that we have today , I think that it would be a company that is very forward thinking , that comes up with a way to kind of quantify that and say look , you know , because the goal and when you asked earlier about like which is a PIF versus an APO look , our overall goal should be ownership .

Pete Shau 25:26

Yes , I agree with that 100% of the time .

Jason Winter 25:29

I want you to own this . They didn't come in there to just rent it and give you a bunch of money and have nothing to show for it . They didn't do that .

Pete Shau 25:36

Right .

Jason Winter 25:36

Right and I just unfortunately it doesn't always work out , you know what I mean . But the flexibility of our companies , that is good , you know what I mean . The bill goes away , we can freeze your payment , you can pick up where you left off and never go , you know . So we kind of already have a loyalty program that's kind of built into our process , right and rto , like if someone returns something you can pick up where they left off , and I think that's pretty standard almost in every company yeah , I think so so that .

Jason Winter 26:07

But why are we not selling that ?

Pete Shau 26:09

as a feature .

Jason Winter 26:10

More I agree and when we do , because ,

Loyalty Programs in Rent-to-Own

Jason Winter 26:13

in my mind , when someone is having payment issues , that's the first thing you should be talking about is well , you know , I can make this bill go away and I can hold it if you're not using it every day . You know what I mean . Well , I've got to go on vacation or whatever . Well , if you're not watching it , I can hold it for you and then bring it back the day you get back and you pick up right where you left off . That's a feature , that's something that should be a way , and you're offering a customer something , a way to take advantage of something that is not embarrassing .

Pete Shau 26:46

You know what I mean . Right , right , right . You did this on purpose . This is part of the program and you enlisted this .

Jason Winter 26:50

You didn't part of the pro , like I want to take advantage of the payment protection right on this in bedroom set because I'm moving or whatever . You know what I mean . Right , great , so we should be selling that at all times . But I think a customer that makes it to the end one of like the best stores that I've ever been associated with always had huge payoffs and payouts , because that's what we always set out to do .

Pete Shau 27:15

Just so we're on the same page . Any store that has a high payout rate is actually a great store . A great store . That's the goal . That's the goal . So if you have a store that actually is getting a lot of people to ownership , you have to battle there . I mean , just getting those customers loyalty and getting them to want to pay off with you is an absolute amazing thing . Now , getting those converted , of course , is another measure , another metric that we say , okay , well , now that they're back on the business , it's exactly that , though .

Jason Winter 27:42

It's a measure and in my opinion it's a measure of the service that that store is giving the experiences that the customers have . The experiences that their customers have . They're not going to if you were fantastic and you fixed every problem immediately in the perfect way possible and things went , they had a great experience . When they came into the store , you had popcorn or whatever . You know what I mean . It was something fun going on good .

Jason Winter 28:08

Music Place looked nice , smelled good . People are happy laughing with each other , you know like if that happened , why wouldn't they next time come back ?

Pete Shau 28:19

Yeah , yeah , like why wouldn't they ?

Jason Winter 28:21

But so often I just don't think that's the experience that some of the people get .

Pete Shau 28:27

Why , why , why , why , and that's kind of why we're selling .

Pete Shau 28:31

Why ? Why don't we have you ? Another thing that I you know , when I saw , you know I'm looking at some pay . You know some pips , some epos and I , and I don't want to I'm not calling anybody out some of us are doing it better than others and some of us are not doing that well , and I'm gonna be honest with you . I'm not . I'm not calling anybody out , I'm not saying I'm good , okay . What I'm saying is , as an industry , I think we can get a little bit better , especially in these time and dates .

Pete Shau 28:52

And there's a couple of small factor things in there , because , to me , having somebody and starting on that tip in the beginning , that's a big factor . Having somebody who is comfortable enough with you to want to come back , that's a big factor . Now , some of the sales factors that fall into it is like , okay , I have Betsy . She has only been here for six months . How am I going to get her to convert this ? She probably doesn't know all the tactics that we're talking about right now and she might not even really understand . Like , hey , you have to have the donuts and coffee out every day , you have to have it vacuumed every day . But let's get a little bit past that and say what is it you say on the rear line , and this is the last line , right , we're not at the beginning , is the front line , we're at the back line , we're at the end zone and we're going . Okay , how do I convert this customer ?

Pete Shau 29:37

And one of the things I thought about is like , okay , if they have something that they're paying out , they obviously feel like it was a good fit or they like it , they want it . It was something that they cherished enough to say I'm going to go all the way , I'm going to run the mile run . And it was like , well , throwing a solid conversion out there would be great . But just saying , hey , I want to sell this and I don't necessarily have a reason to rhyme behind it , it's like , no , that's not how it works . That's not how it works . The reason to rhyme has to be what is the advantageous reason to get this ? And then I thought , well , you just bundle . We bundle every day . Why not bundle it ? Why not say you know what You're paying off ? A TV ? I'm going to give you a killer deal on a stand sound , bar , surround sound . Well , you know what I'm paying off ? The living room group . Well , now it's time to get the solid deal on the On the living room tables , the lamps , the rug . I'm paying out .

Pete Shau 30:30

You know what is it that I can do to add to Give you a better scenario ? Right , I just got a washing machine . Well , now you're going to get the dryer . I mean , this is the way it works , you know , because you know you're always in the first . You're like . You know they always go out at the same time . They always go out soon . You need to get this one . They need to match , and I was thinking about that and creating that sense of packagedness . I don't know if I'm trying to think of the best way to go .

Pete Shau 31:03

Everything needs to go with everything . Definitely , part of the experience is giving them all the experience and trying to go back to what was said before . It's like if I tell you that you had a club that was available to you , but I didn't try to give it to you at the time , that you probably could have used it before it got bad , and telling you afterwards is terrible . Just like if you have a paid in full , it comes in and I don't give you everything available . Well , you didn't want it at that point in time . Hopefully somebody tried to sell it and you say , but now this would be the great time to add a surround sound or the sound bar , or you know the , the , the TV stand with the fireplace that has that one built in sound bar . That just it just looks good sitting there at night , Right Cause you know sounds great when you're watching movies .

Jason Winter 31:49

You know recently .

Pete Shau 31:51

I say recently , within a year or two , me and my wife got a fireplace and obviously it's not a real fireplace . I don't know anybody in Florida that's going to buy a fireplace unless it's built in . But we got the cabinet , it's got the electric fireplace and , lo and behold , there are nights where she will run that thing and it looks good . I mean , the lights are , the lights are turned down or whatever , and it's really that's like the brightest light in the room . But you know what , if I had never used it , I would have never thought about it . And somebody did pitch it to me and I'm not going to say that's what sold it , but it was . It was one of those things like yeah , you know what ?

Jason Winter 32:21

That is pretty nice , let's push that on those paid Like you're just not giving it like when you're selling to somebody and you ask them like a price range , you're trying to stay in , right , like I want to spend about $20 a week . Right , you should start with the $20 a week stuff because that's what they said , right , but then you should probably also show them the $35 and $40 a week .

Pete Shau 32:51

stuff For a little bit more .

Jason Winter 32:52

Well , and it's not even like I'm not trying to say like well , just try to push them towards that stuff .

Jason Winter 32:58

I'm just saying I would . They should know about it , like they should know about the best possible deal , like they should know about why this one is a little bit more expensive , because why wouldn't they make ? They might make that decision . Or maybe they get that one home and they're not a hundred percent happy , but they know that that other one is there that they should have got , and then we can always switch it out , right . So in order for you to give good service , the customer has to be happy all the way . And like , and I just don't know why a customer would be happy to buy a brand new living room , like a couch and a love seat , and then take it home and put it next to their scratch , wobbly tables that they had already and the lamps that don't work , like why would they be as happy as they could be if you could find a way to bundle it up and at least show it to them and say this could be your room right here , like , and the other thing is like in your store .

Pete Shau 33:46

They shouldn't have to use their imagination to see what that looks like it should like .

Jason Winter 33:50

the bed should be made with some blankets and the dresser shouldn't be at the front of the bedroom set , cause nobody at home is going to put that dresser at , or the nightstands in front of them and sleep .

Jason Winter 34:03

Looking at the back of the mirror Right and no one does that . And you know what your brain subconsciously thinks that's weird . I'm not buying that because it's weird . It might be a perfectly beautiful bedroom set if you put the dresser where the dresser goes , the headboard where the headboard goes and the nightstand and maybe a book open on the nightstand and you know , you got a little turndown on a bed and a bag from Big Lots for $40 . And lo and behold , they can envision oh , I want my bedroom to look like that . No one ever walked in and said I want my bedroom to look like that .

Jason Winter 34:33

No one ever walked in and said , I want my bedroom to look like that stack of lumber over there , like it's short , stacked Right , and you got to sometimes do it for space , and I get it . But it's the same thing when you walk into a store and you see lines of appliances that are all singles and they don't match and it just looks like a laundromat and I would much rather have three sets on the floor . We got the good one , we got the better one , we got the best one . Which one would be like this one does this much

Store Presentation and Merchandise Display

Jason Winter 35:01

laundry ? Maybe you got a basket here and then you got two baskets in the middle and you got three baskets on the other one . Right , that's how it makes so much difference , because if you want to sell pairs , you got to display pairs . You can't display a line of rusty , you know , or no one got the little little fingernail polish thing out and did anything to it . They just slapped the tag on it and put it out Right With .

Jason Winter 35:28

Your store is going to attract how you look Like . If your store looks good , run down and not refurbished and nothing's put together like it should , the only people that are going to choose to do business with you are those customers and that's fine , because they need to buy stuff too right , and we need to service them as well . But if I want customers that are going to maybe pay me all the time on time and have that , they want to go up and they want to , they want to make their , they want to have a big improvement in their lifestyle , I have to have that available and I have to have that store . The people , the customers , can walk into your store and within 15 seconds , tell if you are going to be a good or a bad store period .

Jason Winter 36:15

Yeah , is this going to ? Does it stink in here ? Is a ? Is everything hooked up playing ? Can I turn it on ? Can I look at it ? Is it a bunch of black screens on the AV wall ? Is there holes on the floor , like if they're disorganized ? If the store looks disorganized , that's what you're going to get . That could play into whether someone wants to keep doing business with you or not , because I might still need that living room or that bedroom or that dining room table and then , when I pay it off , you didn't really give me much to make me want to come back .

Pete Shau 36:45

Are so incumbent on what's going on . It's so important to not have that one sofa out there that we didn't clean that smells like it's been in the back room for three weeks , right , and you know . Or worse , or worse , or worse weeks , right , and you know , or worse , or worse , or worse , you know there's . There's the idea to that . There's a preventative measure .

Pete Shau 37:04

When something comes in , did it is something at the end of its life cycle , do you have a tv , you know ? Did you end up and kind of goes back to the , the gifting , but then also moving up , did you ? Did you pay something out that that doesn't ? You know , for lack of a better term , we're gonna , we're gonna . We're gonna go backwards and then go forwards . If you pay something out that doesn't , for lack of a better term , we're going to go backwards and then go forwards . If you paid out of VCR and now DVDs are available , you paid out your DVD , but now streaming is available on a smart app , you have to know your products , you have to know what they have , because you never want to again undersell what they have . You just paid us off . It's not good enough .

Jason Winter 37:36

You don't want to say that because number one , that's not true .

Pete Shau 37:37

And they have you just pay this off . It's not good enough . You don't want to say that , because the number one is that's not true and number two is , I mean , they're going to value it to some point . They put money in it , but also moving forward into the situation . So you know , letting them know , hey , these are available . That wasn't available .

Jason Winter 37:57

But this is also something that came out that you know , like was just that was , you know , this quantum LED Right 4K was the best , but now it's not anymore .

Pete Shau 38:03

You know , and now we're looking at like 8 million different colors , now that they have , you know , a white LED in there , and now they can display all these different you know , and the technologies that move forward with it . Or you know , maybe you know at the time and again this really depends on when it was , but you know , we're trying to move forward . Now you had a coil top . Well , you had a Euro top . Now you have a pillow top on top of that thing . Well , now you have like different types of tops that land on foam mattresses . And now , you know , you have a soft foam and a light foam and a 15 inch foam . You have an eight inch foam . Well , what's the difference ? Well , there's so many differences .

Pete Shau 38:35

Now , back before that situation happened , you're about to pay off and it's like you know what ? Well , how ? About upgrading to this great new , shiny product that's on a clean floor , that smells good and I can display it very well , right , right . And you don't , you don't want it to look like . You know , you're picking the shiniest . I don't want to say , I don't want to say that out loud , but you know , the shiniest turd in a bowl , you know it's got to look good , it's got to be presented right , and when you're showing that flagship situation , like you said , you've got to show everything and you're kind of getting them to move up . You can't be in a swap meet man .

Jason Winter 39:10

And that's the other thing . Like , you can see a store you go into and they have all that older stuff over in a section . You , that older stuff over in a section . You know all this , our discount section , right , and I just I always , whenever I see one of those , I just also , which customers do you think only belong over there ? You know what I mean . Do you think people want to believe that I belong in the , in that section over there ? Like , do we have customers that , hey man , you got any repos , like anything , that the people that walk in they want the price , they only want price . We got to have that stuff . But I would much rather mix it in , make sure it's presentable and it's good as it's going to look , and priced low , because the only person that's going to want it is that guy that's looking for a deal or that lady with five dogs that's going to eat the cushions . Anyway , I just care about having something to sit on . Like I get . You know what I mean . We got those customers . We need those customers to keep that blood pumping .

Jason Winter 40:04

I mean , the inventory is the blood of your store . You're the manager is the brain and the salesperson is usually the heart . But the heart , the blood , is the merchandise and you got to keep it pumping . And as soon as you start getting a high idle or you start , it just clots the system up and then the blood's not flowing and then you're not getting the new stuff that you can't order , anything that is hot right now , that's selling itself .

Jason Winter 40:31

And then I'm of the feeling of you've got to get aggressive with the older merchandise so that there are some great deals for that customer that only cares about price . And I mean aggressive , like take your lumps , like just make it an unbelievable deal , like you've got to get this thing discounted now so that when people come in they might have a preconceived notion that we're just too expensive or it's going to be too high . We've got to be able to maybe prove that wrong by having some fantastic deals on the floor . We've got to be able to maybe prove that wrong by having some fantastic deals on the floor . And what better than your higher idol used ?

Pete Shau 41:03

previously loved .

Jason Winter 41:03

Pre-loved , certified , pre-owned merchandise that you have , but it's got to be a great deal . And the people that have someone that are looking for a deal , they're going to find that . And then the people by contrast there's going to be people that I only want brand new Like I don't want . I want the nicest washer dryer . I people that I only want brand new Like I don't want . You know , I want the nicest washer dryer .

Pete Shau 41:21

I want the nicest computer .

Jason Winter 41:22

I have to have the fastest one , like I don't . You know what I mean . And just having that variety it creates that balance of getting all the types of customers against the rest of the customers .

Jason Winter 41:33

This one's just right . It's not , it's not junky or old and it's not brand new and it's kind of decent price one . This is the one for me . That is what most of the merchandise is . It's not junk and it's not new . And then most of the of the customers are going to fall in that middle where they don't want to pay . You know , maybe pay the big big ticket and then they won't , they don't want that one because it's , you know , used or whatever . This one's just right .

Pete Shau 41:55

Well , I mean there mean there's a thought too , because something you said really stuck out to me . We said it earlier what's the difference between an EPO and a PIF ?

Jason Winter 42:03

Nothing , no , they win the winner . They got to the end of the rainbow , they hit the goal line .

Pete Shau 42:09

So you know , despite what might happen in a loyalty program or how many points they offer or whatever the case is , they offer or whatever the case is , I think a good way to convert a PIF to is start offering some of the stuff that might not be on the floor , or a higher end special sale item . We talked about processes . You're on a 90-day , 60-day , whatever . It'd be a good idea . If you're going to order it , order it then so that by the time they get to the end of their agreement , it's already available to them . And step them up and like listen , this is what we have available to us in store . You know what the website looks like , but we have some items that we just don't bring in because they're too shiny , too glittery and it's going to kill everybody .

Pete Shau 42:46

But for you we will take a look at it . You want to know why ? Because that person is already , they're showing or they're already there by hopefully already having a variant or a myriad of EPOs and PIFs on their account . But if that's not the case , when you're getting to that 90 , 60 , 30-day range ? You're doing a sin if they don't pay out you know what I mean .

Jason Winter 43:06

Yeah , and you definitely should . Those are your best customers , right ? You know what I mean ? The ones that make it to the gold post and no matter how much you had to help them or whatever , they end up paying it off . It was a good bet to begin the deal between the two of you . They should just have carte blanche in the store , in my opinion , if they pay it off in any fashion .

Jason Winter 43:26

You know what I mean , Even a cash sale , someone that just does a cash sale right on the floor . I think there's a huge opportunity for cash sales out there in the rental and store we don't take it much of advantage of we should be better at it . Because , why not ? And it should be the first thing that you offer a customer , in my opinion . Why not start with cash and say well , if you give me this , it's done and paid for and that's it ? There's a train coming by here .

Pete Shau 43:53

There is a train coming by .

Jason Winter 43:54

It doesn't sound like it's in the studio was a sales train maybe , but the overall experience , from the first order to the delivery , to the service issue that you fixed , all of that is going to determine whether that customer and how you treated them through the whole process when they had a payment problem , when they maybe didn't call you right back , how you acted when they finally did get in touch with you , all of that is going . I think that that is more important and more easy to focus on than the tricks at the end of how to try to get them back on , because if you take great care of a customer and you handle the sometimes problems can be the best thing that ever happened to your relationship , if you go above and beyond to make it right , the right way , because we're going to screw up . We're humans .

Jason Winter 44:38

You know what I mean Things are going to go wrong , trucks are going to be late , stuff is going to break and it is what it is . How you handle it is going to make that conversion happen . So I look at PIF conversions as basically payout conversions . All the same , I just look at it as a gauge of the surface of the location . If you have low PIF conversions or you know low , comparably , I guess , to the standard right , because I think everybody wants 50% but I don't think anyone's even near it .

Pete Shau 45:06

No , I'm not saying 30 right now .

Jason Winter 45:08

Right , 30 is probably great . Yeah , Okay , so 30 is great If you're at 22, . Hey , we've got some work to do .

Pete Shau 45:14

Yeah right , you know what I mean . I mean you've got to judge whatever your three-month average or your 13-week average is , but I would say you've got to do 30 .

Jason Winter 45:21

You can

Building Value Through Bundling

Jason Winter 45:22

fix anything . You focus on anything , anything at all . One thing I learned at the Meeting of the Minds when we went to the trip show this last one in Atlanta , yeah , in Georgia .

Jason Winter 45:32

One in Atlanta . I went to a lot of the breakouts . And I went to the breakout that talked about how that I was selling tires , and I went to the one about gaming computers and I went to the one about cell phones right , and in each one of those someone stood up and they gave a presentation about how they're killing it with blank right . They're killing it with phones . This store , you know , in San Diego's got 350 phones on rent . Great , why ? Because phones are their thing . They , they go to Leopard and they order the box and they do the whole thing and they refurbish it . They got it down , they focus on it . That's their thing . I truly believe anything in this industry you can do if you focus on it , if you focus on the PIF conversions . You can be fantastic at the , you know , like you know , getting them to . You can be fantastic at closing sales .

Jason Winter 46:27

It doesn't matter if when that thing broke down , they were sitting on it . They were a week without using it . He didn't take it seriously , he didn't care . They were paying for it and they weren't even able to use it . And that time that one guy was super rude to me when he was talking to me .

Jason Winter 46:44

It doesn't matter , like that stuff , but if you have a process , like you said , 60 days you start looking at it , start talking about it . We're getting close to the end here . What do you think you got anything in mind that you were thinking about getting next and that they give you a wishlist item of some kind , then get that item for them and then let them know that it's there , say , hey , I got that thing for you . You said you were looking for a laptop . It doesn't have to be new , it's looking in good condition . It must have this , this and this . I found one , perfect for you . Just let it know . I mean , that is next level . That's great . You should do that . That will get you conversions for sure . Like because you focused on it , because you made it right and you made it a priority , even if it's once a week or twice a week , you're like well , we're going to get more PIF conversions .

Pete Shau 47:29

Well , I , you know there's . I mean , and I think the overall gist of it is , there is more than one way to to skin this cat , because you know , because there is that . How do I do it ? Well , you have the processes . Whether your processes are 90 , 60 , 30 , whether your processes are whatever you have set up for your company , follow the processes . But that's not the only way . Okay , what is another way ? Closes when you have somebody that's at the very end . Do you upsell ? Do you add on ? Do you package ? Do you upsell ? Do you add on ? Do you package ? Do you special order ?

Pete Shau 48:00

What is it that you're doing to attract this customer who has shown , regardless of the situation , they're getting to the end of that agreement , they are somebody that you want to do business with . And then there's the okay , you have this offer and you have that offer , and then you have to seal the deal . You need a one month off ? Okay , I can do that . When you need a couple of dollars off , the same as cash , you know what I can do that you want me to extend the same as cash by a month . If you have that possibility , okay , I can do that .

Pete Shau 48:21

So you have the hook , you have the processes , you have the customer that you want to add on . You know whether you're gifting , whether you're adding on , whether you're giving more to whether you door . Your PIF conversion starts when you say hi , exactly , how are you doing today ? Your PIF conversion , your EPO conversion , your customer conversions , to stay on the book , start the moment that they walk in that door , and it's not from the third or fourth sale , it's from the first time you say the words hi , welcome to the whole experience , the whole experience .

Pete Shau 48:59

The whole thing , because you're selling the whole enchilada . And the truth is , what do they buy ? Because you're giving a month free , because they're getting an upgrade , because they have the ability to get a discount , hey , I'll give you a discount if you pay out now , if you open up . Whatever the reason , the truth is the reason they're still there is because they're doing business with you Great . Because they're doing business with you Great business . And if they don't want to do that , they'll take your sale , they'll take your deal .

Pete Shau 49:22

And you know what ? I don't know . If I want to buy today , let me think about it . Now I'm gone and we've said it a hundred times , we've said it on previous podcasts . When we say it today , they have so many options that they can go into their phone , they can do relationship , they like the business that you do , the way that you tailor it around them , the experience that they have when they walk in , when you're with them , and when you're not with them .

Pete Shau 49:47

When you're behind the counter looking up at something and I'm not looking and I'm not seeing six-legged creatures running around , or I don't smell something , that something rotten in Denmark , or there's something rotten under that cushion over there , or , you know , I come in and it looks , it doesn't look good . I've got a contemporary sofa with a you know a very modern coffee and table set like a black glass with like this brown wooden covered , you know thing , and then I've got some lamps that look like you know they're straight out of Compton . It doesn't make for a good experience , and so I think the conversions , to say it safely , is everything . You want to fix your conversion rate , you want to fix your EPO rate . You start at the beginning , you start at the top , you start with the person , you start with the store , you start with the representation , how you handle problems and the problem . Well , the service and the problems , I mean that's huge . How do you make it right Really ?

Jason Winter 50:39

how you make it right , because there's going to be issues along the way . How respectful are you when things are going wrong ? You know what I mean . Like how much do you deserve the money ? I guess is the main . Oh , that's good .

Pete Shau 50:52

That's the first thing . Do you deserve it ? Do ?

Jason Winter 50:54

you deserve the money Like . I talk to delivery guys in cars all the time . I'm like guys . If a guy brings a pizza to my house , I give him five to six bucks at least . If he's super nice , I might give him more . How are you not getting $15 to $20

Earning Customer Trust and Loyalty

Jason Winter 51:12

every time you do a delivery as a tip ? How ? Because , first of all , I can't make him tip you because it's not . You know that's just it's not but you got to earn it and you got to deserve it .

Jason Winter 51:24

But if you deserve it every single time , guess what you're going to be eating lunch every day . Because if you're the guy that just comes in and just , you know , just shoves it in and , you know , puts it wherever and here's signing . Here I got a lot of stuff to do . I get it . It's a hard job . You're on the third floor man , you had to just lug that thing up there .

Jason Winter 51:46

If a guy that brings a pizza up three flights of stairs gets five bucks and you just carried a motion sectional up there and you didn't do it in a way that make the customer feel like you deserve three , four , five , six dollars , then you're probably not doing it . Great , you know . But if you put the door jam protector on the door and it was wrapped and you brought it in , you unveiled it and you wiped off your fingerprints and you hooked up the power on it and you kicked it out and demonstrated it for them and you set up all their streaming things and hooked up their power on it and you kicked it out and demonstrated it for them and you set up all their streaming things and hooked up their ps5 and you did all that and you used the windex to clean the fingerprints off . And because that customer waited all day for you to show up , that was a big deal , that was the biggest deal of their day . That they two to four . They're coming , they're going to be a two to four , now three to five .

Jason Winter 52:36

You start straggling up there and you just here you go . I'm sorry we're late . You know it's John's fault , not mine . So if you do that , you don't deserve a payment . You don't deserve for them to stay with you when things get rough . You don't deserve any of that . You don't deserve a tip , that's for sure . But if every single delivery person that we had working for our company did a good enough job to deserve a tip , that means we're going to deserve our payments . We're probably going to deserve them on time for the most part too right , we deserve your business .

Pete Shau 53:09

You got to deserve it .

Jason Winter 53:11

You're going to get great conversions if you could deserve it . So you want to focus on deserving it . Do you have little get-togethers ? I see a lot of our regionals will have . Well , they'll go out to five different customers that have paid out , that have not converted , and just bring them a little gift or a little gift basket from Dollar Tree or something . It doesn't have to be expensive . Just say , hey , we're bringing this by because it's Mother's Day and we just wanted to say happy Mother's Day to you . You know what I mean . We miss you up there . If you ever need anything , you're good to go you just reminded me of something .

Pete Shau 53:43

It's a beautiful thing . It was a story that I read and it was about an old and I think it was a Jaguar . I think it was Jaguar . It could be wrong , it was , let's just say , right . So this high end system was no different than any other car . It was a car . This is probably like late 80s , early 90s , and so , you know , back then everybody had a tire , everybody had a jack , OK , you had your little tools and stuff like that .

Pete Shau 54:09

So this guy who's buying cars going through , for some reason , he had a flat tire , ok , and at that particular point in time the higher end was going to the either the airless or you just don't have one and cause they have this service right , and so he's going through and he's always checking , he's always checking it , and so he's trying to make a decision between one brand and the other brand . Not much different , okay , and and I'm not going to call out names here I think it was like like Jaguar versus BMW or something . It was nothing crazy . You know fast engine , big trunk space , looks good , leather , you know , back then at you know power seats , and it had a CD player or you know six changer in the back . And so what he did what he didn't tell the salespeople was is that my decision is going to be really be based on if I can get the damn tire out of the wheel . That was his thing . Like he was getting a little bit older he was probably in his mid fifties , you know , early sixties . He's like can I get the tire out If I'm stuck with my wife ? I don't . I've already bought the car . It's mine , I don't want to be stuck on the road somewhere .

Pete Shau 55:22

So that was his bit and he didn't tell anybody . That's just what he's doing . So he finally gets to the second car . So you look at the first car , which I believe was a bmw I could be wrong . He goes the second car . He looks to it . It's like they were both easy to get out , except he's going into the back of the jaguar . He's looking around , he's like okay , jack's good . Now the guy's selling , he's selling the wife in the front . You know . He's looking at the back . He's pulling it . Okay , it up . I've got a little twist off thing , I can get a jack . And he sees this little bag , this little bag right next to it . What the heck's in the bag ? It's kind of sealed . I don't want to take it out , but I'm curious what's in it .

Pete Shau 55:47

So they're talking about the car . It's nagging him the whole time . They go in to buy the car . Oh guy says I'm glad you . He goes in there and it's a set of white gloves . The guy bought the car . Okay , he researched the gloves . Those gloves cost about $1.50 . But because they went just that much farther , just they're white . Who's going to ? They're white gloves . You're going to change the tire . Anything you touch is going to make them really look , and he just made a $50,000 .

Jason Winter 56:27

Purchase for $1.65 extra .

Pete Shau 56:30

Because he said you know what , I can pull the tire out on both , I can change it on both , but this one I won't go home looking like I just tore something apart . And that $1.50 , that visit to a customer's home , that small investment , just a little bit more it doesn't take a lot Than the guy next to you To go from meh to wow .

Pete Shau 56:54

And that's never left me , those small things having a candy on your counter , making sure that you say hi and bye , making sure that you stand up and you shake somebody's hand when you . You know it's the small things that make a difference . They will come back to you .

Jason Winter 57:07

And I worked your time like look everywhere around us right now , within a three mile radius of here , there's people sitting on couches watching big-screen TVs , playing video games , using their laptop to surf the web , cooking their dinner in their kitchen , with their appliances , washing their clothes . Every single person has these things that we carry , that we are renting . We're selling Every single one . We don't have to convince them to buy it , they already are . We just have to sell them ourselves and our process and our transaction . So where they get those things is up to us .

Jason Winter 57:52

And so many times we're waiting in the store for these sales to happen when we haven't locked in that the customer that we do get gets a great experience , and then we're just waiting for them . Well , they know where I am , so they'll probably come in here . If they want some stuff , god right , but at any point , you could just go to the apartment complex . It's like when I visit stores , I always ask them what kind of a you know ? Can you guys got any apartments around here ? They always say , yeah , yeah , yeah , I got this one and that one and I said , great , great , you guys , can you guys got any apartments around here ? They always say , yeah , yeah , yeah , I got this one and that one .

Jason Winter 58:19

And I said oh great , great you guys which ones you guys got a lot of customers at . Oh , this one over here . I say , well , what's the lady's name in the office ? And they never know .

Pete Shau 58:30

The collections guy knows , but they don't .

Jason Winter 58:32

The collections guy might know , but the salesperson definitely doesn't , and that person in the office could probably send me an untold amount of customers if she was properly motivated by maybe getting a referral week . Every single time someone rented in that plaza . I go by and I bring her some cookies once a month . Hey , how are you doing ? You got any flyers ? I'm just going to put some flyers up here . If you guys ever need anything . You want to have a little party in the , I'll bring you a TV and that's how you got to do it . Like if you own the place , that's what you do .

Pete Shau 59:04

Well , I mean , how many , how ? How much more is a customer inclined to keep on doing business with you If you've been able to reduce the amount of payments or reduce the price that they would pay on something by just referring somebody right and then getting that money to really offset what they're paying and you really go . Okay , I could have paid this , I did pay this , especially when you have somebody who in those office environments or in those high traffic environments that can keep on sending people your way , I would totally charge off an entire living room set and give it to you . If you've given me 15 , 20 people , I would . I would do it because you know what , in the end of the day , whether they all pay three or four months , we have a conversion rate , number one and number two . We have a payoff rate . One or two of those are going to happen of each category at 15 customers , plain and simple . I'm going to get stuff paid off , I'm going to get stuff EPO'd , I'm going to get stuff that is going to be worth having and getting back and be able to resell that which benefits the company . I would totally do it .

Pete Shau 1:00:01

What color you want , right ? But it's always like well , will you ? Well , how many times did you nurture that ? Did you go over there and keep in touch with that person ? Did you keep on reminding them that that's what happens when they get their referral ? Did you really hold true ? Do you deserve the referral ? Do you deserve it ? Well , listen , guys , if you want to get a payout , if you want to get an EPO conversion up , the question isn't can you , it's ? Did you deserve it ? I love the idea . You've got to deserve it and it starts from the beginning all the way to the end , the relationship , and it's not just about the processes at the end . It's important , but it's not the only thing . That's going to get you guys taken care of Now .

Pete Shau 1:00:39

If you want to talk about it more , we'd love to hear about it . Send me an email and go online and submit . But , pete at the rtoshowpodcastcom , or you can submit anything on the website at the rtoshowpodcastcom . That's an amazing place . You can hit me up at the DMs on Facebook , instagram , linkedin , now YouTube . Don't forget to subscribe . You know you can ask Jason anything you want . Hit me up and we might have another one to follow up on how to get really good at your payoff conversion . But it's something that

Final Thoughts and Show Closing

Pete Shau 1:01:05

we thought was a good idea to talk about , and I think I'm glad that you guys stuck around and listen to it . Listen , I want to tell you guys , as always , I got my red on today . I didn't just so you know .

Jason Winter 1:01:14

I , I , I didn't . I didn't tell Jason about it , but I got my shirt , so this is the red shirt , okay .

Pete Shau 1:01:21

This is stands for . Remember everybody deployed . I did get this from Vox Populi , who is a great sponsor of this show , and I want them to know , and I want you to know that I support the people that are out there , whether you're here in our country , whether you're a veteran or the people that we remember on Memorial day . We owe a lot to you , the veterans , the people who have done a lot , and we want to make sure that we give back . So every time that you buy a shirt , just so you know it does give back .

Pete Shau 1:01:44

But if you want to buy more shirts , you're more than welcome to go to the RTOshowpodcastcom . Buy some swag there , don't forget . It does help out the show and more than not , you get to rock these beautiful shirts out there in the world , there in the world . And when they tell you where'd you get your information from ? You got it from Jason Pete on the RTO Show podcast and listen . I would tell you guys . As always , jason , I do appreciate it . Get your collections low to get your sales high . Have a great one .