Great Rent To Own Stores Are Built On Relationships

Everyone offers “easy payments” now, so why do some rent-to-own stores keep growing while others stall out? I sat down with Phil Hamer from Buddy’s Home Furnishings to get real about RTO operations, from the habits that win on the showroom floor to the behind-the-scenes systems that protect collections, staffing, and customer retention.

Phil walks through his 24-year journey from starting on the truck to leading corporate operations, and what he learned along the way about mentors, competitive drive, and developing people who can carry the business forward. We also break down how Gen Z shopping behavior is changing the game: fewer walk-ins, more online and phone orders, and a “subscription” mindset that makes lease-to-own a natural fit if we explain it clearly. That shift impacts everything from product flow to how we train teams to communicate with confidence.

We go deep on recruiting, too, including why evergreen job ads can backfire, how to use tools like Indeed messaging as a two-way CRM, and how simple text reminders can cut interview ghosting. From there, we zoom out to customer acquisition: guerrilla marketing still works, handshake cards still matter, referrals can double a store’s reach, and community events build the kind of trust big-box payment programs can’t match. We close with a practical look at AI in rent-to-own, why reporting dashboards may be the best starting point, and where the human relationship still can’t be replaced.

If you care about rent-to-own leadership, collections, sales training, marketing strategy, and the future of the RTO industry, hit subscribe, share this with a manager on your team, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Pete Shau 0:07

Hello, and welcome to the RTO Show Podcast. I'm your host, Pete Shao, and we have a special guest today that is going to talk nothing but RTO operations. I know you guys have been waiting for this for a little while. Got a lot of different people on. This one we've been trying to work out for a little while. I've got Phil Hammer here from Buddies Home Furnishings. Listen, this guy's Buddies All the Way. Blue, blue, blue. But before that, make sure you guys go to the website www.thertoshowpodcast.com. Make sure you scroll down just a little bit, get to the newsletter, make sure you subscribe because you're going to see things on there that you don't see anywhere else here on the podcast. Phil, how are you doing, man? In studio. It's good to see you, man. How's everything going? Pete, it's good. It's been well over a year since you've been trying to get me to go. Well, we talked about this, I want to say, in DC of last year. Correct. So you guys gotta understand. We don't see each other that much, except for on the road. I think we see each other more on the road than anywhere else, but we we both actually do live in Florida. But uh are you still in O'Cala? I am. Yep. Been up there just over 20 years. So help me out. The home office of Buddy's Home Furnishings is in Orlando. It is. Is that the drive that you what what does your day look like?

SPEAKER_02 1:16

So uh director of operations, by the way. So um let me back up a little bit. 24 years last month with Buddy's Home Furnishings. Started as a driver in the field, uh, worked through collections and sales and management and multi-unit, now the director for our corporate stores. But uh my my day-to-day interaction at home office isn't necessary because I deal with the regionals. So, you know, I travel, hit stores, and communicate with them. So a little bit of remote work and some travel.

Pete Shau 1:46

So a lot of travel.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

A lot of travel. A lot of travel. I've been doing that for a while.

Pete Shau 1:50

Well, you you you beat me to it because I was gonna ask you about that, because I got that. Oh, 20 plus years. You're at 24 years. 24 years last month. Now you hit this right out of school, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Yeah, yeah. I went to uh community college right after school, did my two years, and realized, man, life is punching me and I've got to get into something. And you know, at the time it was uh it was a job, it wasn't a career then because you're young, you're trying to find your way. And you know, back then we called everybody an account manager. Oh, yeah, but oh yeah, they were the the delivery drivers, they handled the collections, they did sales, they did showroom floor, and uh, you know, you get in and all of a sudden it sucks you in, right? You realize you're pretty good at this.

Pete Shau 2:28

And uh I'll tell you what, it it if you guys don't know, if you're watching this for the first time, I will tell you rent own has a way of just kind of like it once it's in you, it it just it just in you. And I've seen people come and I've seen people go, great people not knocking it, but like there's a point where you know you just get it. Yeah, and when it clicks, you're kind of in it. No matter what part of it you're in it, you're in it. Now going from where you've been, the driver, because we we are definitely gonna talk about the driver's story, right? It's almost like the buddy's mantra now, and and Michael

From Driver To Operations Leader

Pete Shau 3:00

Bennett's talked about a lot. You know, we start on the truck. And that's been something that I think after hearing all the stories that I've that I've been able to be fortunate enough to tell to talk to and tell, it really does start on the truck. That's where you learn the business. This is where you learn really the relationships between you and who they are.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Yeah.

Pete Shau 3:18

So you start in the truck, you start moving up. What was it right in that two-year thing? You're coming out of school, you're trying to figure everything out, you're getting hit. Oh, what was it about rent a you know, this this rent to own that just decided like this is what I'm gonna try? Because there's a lot of other things that you could have gone into. There's a lot of other professions that could have called you, but you said, you know what, let me try rent to own for now. Yeah, and then never left.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

You know, I the the excitement of just so many different things being taught under one roof. When you come in, you're picking things up and putting them down, right? You're learning logistics, uh, product refurbishment, product care. But then when you start getting into collections, it's a communication side of the business. And we're taught really early on that that's just really sales, right? All you're really doing is selling to a customer. And I was good at that, you know, communicating with the customers in those inner city markets, going out to houses, not afraid to knock on doors and talk to customers. And back then it was more about beating your chest. You're just getting new into the game. You're like, I'm gonna beat my chest. Look, I can hit that car closed, I can knock on that door hard. But over time, you start to realize more so now that we're teaching that this is a relationship business, right? Getting to know those customers and their problems and how can we solve that problem through a couch or a TV or extending a payment because they might need a little bit of help. And there's just a lot there. And then you go from collections and you transition into the sales side, and before you know it, you're ready for management. And that's really where I think my excellent took off is that I love people. I love working with people, and so the customer service played into that. But getting a chance to work with you, we knew me and you worked for a while back in the day, and you know, just trying to build talent, I think has been one of my biggest successes. And what I still strive for today is really just working with those people coming into the game now and seeing the you know, they need to be molded. How do we turn those into good people interested in business? And even more recently, I've been talking to people that even if you don't stay in rentown, at least I've given you the experience to be really successful in business.

Pete Shau 5:18

Yeah. So what tell me 24 years ago, was there somebody, not just the business, was there somebody that you can look back and recall and say, that guy, that guy, whoever it was, yeah, did did helped you understand it? Did you get a mentor? Did you get a coach? Was there a great GM that said, Phil, let me take you under my wing, let me show you. Did you have one of those going through, or was this all just your dedication to what you saw in front of you?

SPEAKER_02 5:48

I would say it's 50-50. There's always going to be a mentor that is going to challenge you, but you have to have the desire to, I want to be here, I want to be better than I didn't come from a lot of money growing up, and uh, but I knew what I wanted, right? I appreciated the nice things. I see people with nice cars and nice neighborhoods. And man, I want that. So I've been really self-motivated my whole life, but I will tell you, the first manager that brought me on board was Dave Ware. He was a manager up in our Gainesville store, had been a very successful manager for the company for well over 20 years. And uh I think he really started molding me on the business aspect of it. So, not the delivery. Everyone can kind of come in and learn how to do a delivery, but taking that transition from coming out of the truck and how do you have a one-on-one conversation? Block out the noise, right? You got 400 customers, don't worry about the 400. Love the one you're with, focus on that conversation. Uh, he was really good at that. And then other managers, Charlie Buff, you may have known him because he's been around the industry a long time. Long time. Yeah. Him and Scott Hancock at the time were the two that really, when I looked up and saw the upper echelon, going, man, I can see those guys, I can see what they do, I can see the

Mentors Competition And Building Talent

SPEAKER_02 7:00

influence they have on people around them. That's what I want to strive for. So constantly in their back pocket and on their hip, just what can you teach me? What can I learn? Um, and then using it as a challenge to try to be better than them, right? So at the time Charlie was running uh the biggest store at our company at the time, which was in Ocala, and Scott was the multi-unit. And putting myself up against Charlie when I've got a store going, I'm gonna beat you, man. I'm taking you down. You're no longer gonna be that big guy on the block. So um just being competitive, I think, is a big part of it as well.

Pete Shau 7:33

Well, always, you know, always having something to strive for has been one of the things that I've always had. It's almost my own carrot, right? You just like you can't ever reach it, and when you do, there's just another one ahead of it because you have you have to have those goals that are gonna keep you moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Yeah.

Pete Shau 7:47

Now, we're gonna go back and forth in this history lesson, guys. Taking that idea because you're new, now you've gotten to start to understand the business, and you got people that you're kind of looking up to. Fast forward to this past year, was your first year that you were a part of the fellows program. Yeah, but then, if I remember correctly, you were actually on one of APRO's videos talking about the fellows program because you came back the year afterwards. Right. So tell me a little about a little bit about that because not only did you come back, you came back with some people. Yeah, you brought some people with you. Yeah, so you go through this, and we'll we'll go back again, but you brought some people with you. You've gone from the beginning to where you are now. How important was it to get those guys involved in the advocacy that we do in DC and bring people with you as far as the fellows program and being a part of buddies? I mean, where did that land with all the rest?

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Probably a highlight. You know, I think three years ago was our first year going. And um, at that time it was just inspiring, right? We I've been to Washington as a kid and took a vacation, but going into it from the aspect of Legcon and walking the halls of Congress and just getting to experience the power and the awe of those uh of those areas isn't pretty incredible. And Apro had done a fantastic job of lining up all your stops, knowing exactly where you'd be that you can tell that they have been doing this a while. And um, the support system was fantastic. So being a rookie, being a fellow, um, you know, you're just you're more awestruck than everything else because you're listening to the veterans who've done this a long time, how they're talking inside the rooms, and then coming back that second year, and now you're gonna talk a little bit. And then this past year, I led the team, all right, and and and we incorporated some more fellows from Buddies. And our goal is to constantly be bringing a fresh new batch of talent because I think what I experienced was rent to own is bigger than the box that you're in. And even as a multi-unit, you've got multiple boxes. But Florida, hey, it's had some great years. We have we don't have a lot on the books when it comes to a negative impact on the industry. But there are a lot of states out there where we're having to pay attention and you learn about that when you're up there and you try to be supportive. And um, I think the other thing is I've been so competitive my whole life that you know it's always about uh those other companies that you're you're talking with. Uh I won't mention their name on here, but there's a lot of competition out there. But when we get there at LedgeCon, the name doesn't matter. We are representing the industry, and I think that's where my mind was just kind of let's drop down that bear of competition and let's support each other because there are plenty of customers in Florida and all the other states out there that you know we can be a part of that.

Pete Shau 10:27

So well, I've got to agree with 100% because part of the reason the podcast exists was exactly that. There was a few years before I went to DC and I had talked to Charles. It was Charles' first year. Uh I actually started doing this the year before, but when Charles first came along, he he wanted to meet up with me. Now, at the time I had had really just started getting into April. I was a little nervous. I'm like, what's the CEO want to talk to me about? And he sat down and he's like, you know, I I love the idea of this podcast. And I was like, oh, great. Perfect. Me too. And he's like, I want to sponsor the podcast.

Advocacy LedgeCon And The Fellows Program

Pete Shau 11:00

I want to see how we can make this work because I think this is gonna benefit the industry. And it was at that point, and I remember sitting down on the sofa with him, and I remember having this conversation, and in the back of my head, I part of me was there, and part of me was going, like it, this is this is way bigger than the life I've lived. This is way bigger than the four walls I've had or the you know, seven stores that I've had. This is different. Yeah, this is not just about one of us, it's about all of us. It is, and so you know, I I I took it differently after that. It was like, yes, we're coming here with people that we compete with on a normal basis, but this is my flag. That's her flag. And they have their flag. And it's good to be proud of what you do. But at the same time, we're literally buying from the same vendors. We're learning from the people who have done the best in the industry, not just at one rent-to-owned company or another. These are the best highlights of our industry coming back to us and saying, This is how you do it, right? And this is the best way you do it. This is our best practices, this is the best way to collect, the best way to sell, the best way to market, the best way to do your online, the best way to lead. Right. And then every year they do it again and again. And it was like, it can't be about one flag. Right. It can't be right. So we had to make this kind of like the United Nations, right? And just enjoy what everybody brought to the table and learn. Yeah. Learn. And I've made some great, amazing friends along the way, people that I would have never thought I would have ever talked to. Right. Uh doing the Legends series was an like an amazing process. We're trying to talk about a little bit in the green room, but you know, doing the book and having the book come out soon on the audio version, I just I can't wait. I love working on that project. My wife thinks I'm crazy, but she's like, You're doing what? What else are you doing? Yeah. Yeah, let's add that to the extra. Yeah. So, you know, with the differences of where you started and where you are now, because there's 24 years is a big difference. It is. You've seen a generation or two walk through people that we used to sell to when they were young, or now it's probably selling to their children. I've seen a couple of those come through my doors. What is the difference now between when you were doing it directly and now you have like the Gen Z coming through, right? The millennials are just kind of topping around 30, 40 years ago. Like, what are the differences that you're still seeing? We're in operations. What are the buying habits that you're seeing different now than 24 years ago?

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Yeah. So the difference between in-person and online is definitely a big part of it. Social media having a huge influence on people's buying decisions. You know, we had a lot of foot traffic back in the day, and it was always, you know, you're beating them off with a stick. We used to keep a binder full of order forms that people we had to deny simply because they didn't meet the qualifications. But um, you know, now it's it's all coming in online or it's coming in over the phone. So our training has to be different, right? In the past, it was, you know, how quick do you get to the front door, how quick do you shake a hand, right? We still do that, but there's not as much of that. Now we do have some rural areas where they still get plenty of foot traffic, but these inner city stores, they just customers want to call up, they want to send it in order, and they want to think like it's Amazon, right? I want it to show up as quick as possible and give you the least amount of information. Absolutely, absolutely. So that's probably been the biggest change. But that generational uh customer where now I'm dealing with grandma, I'm dealing with daughter, and I might be starting to get in line with their kids, but I'm also starting to know their kids and their family, it's extremely important, right? This is a relationship business. They can go buy this same desk at five different places in town. The name brings them in the first time, but it's the people inside that keeps them coming back. And that's the key is just building that relationship and knowing that your store is set up in a great market and becoming the mayor of that community, and that's how our stores stay successful.

Pete Shau 14:33

So when we talk about director of operations, how many stores does Buddy Corporate have versus the whole enchilada? Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

So we're currently the third largest RTO company in the United States. We've got 216 stores, I believe, right now. Uh, 33 of those are corporate. We've got three out in Texas and then the three 30 in Florida. So I oversee those 33.

Pete Shau 14:55

Three out in Texas. How does that wait hold on? We got to go out a little bit. How does that work? Is that a visit? Do you get to literally go to Texas every once in a while?

SPEAKER_02 15:01

I do, I do, and probably need to do it a little bit more, but it is a challenge. But thank goodness I've got a really good regional out there, Crystal. She's been with us a while, started as a fantastic manager in the industry, and she's running one of our one of our groups out there. And yeah, three very rural markets in Texas, and uh they do quite well.

Pete Shau 15:18

Well, I can tell you right now, Texas

Gen Z Buying And Lease Ownership

Pete Shau 15:20

defined the term rural. Yes, they have some stuff out there that it's like wow. Sticks. Getting getting a truck out there to just deliver some furniture to you is like, I gotta work this out. We've got to work some logistics because getting you some stuff is just it's hard.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

You go through the oil fields and you see the big uh uh turbines flying going out there, and it's just fields and fields and fields, and then boom, it's a city.

Pete Shau 15:39

Like, oh my gosh, yeah. I feel like it's literally in the middle of nowhere. It's crazy. Let me ask you something. Are you getting everything out of your rent-to-owned business? If you're not an APRO member, then the answer is probably no. Look, advocacy is April's bread and butter. This is why they were created and what they do best. But here's the thing April membership is about way more than advocacy. April connects you to the movers and the shakers of the industry, people who've been there, done that, and they can help you do it even better. Apro's monthly webinars give you expert insights and actionable takeaways. It's like having a masterclass for your business every single month. Got questions about complex regulations or sticky situations? No problem. April's legal hotline gives you direct access to experts who have got the answers. That's a peace of mind that you can't put a price on. And let's not forget the resources, news, updates, and tools that keep you ahead of the curve. Scholarships for your team? Check. Disaster relief when you need it most? Double check. Apro is your ultimate support system in the rent-to-own world. So stop settling for less. With APro members, get more. More support, more connections, more success. Head over to rtohq.org and join the APRO family today. Because in this business, more isn't just better. It's essential. See you at the top with APRO. You know, Gen Z was really, you know, kind of brought up in the subscription arrow, right? Everything is subscription. I get it for as long as I need it, and then I don't need it. I'm used to making payments, not sure about ownership. You know, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

I love it. I love what Gen Z brings to the table. I love that minimalist kind of attitude that they've got, that I don't have to own something right out that, and it's perfect for our business. I just wish there was a way that we could relate and get it to them a little bit quicker, right? And that really comes down to this them having an understanding that today you might be into leather, right? I like this black leather couch, I love it. But six months from now, you go, you know what? I want to change. I'm changing. My girlfriend's moving in with me, my boyfriend's moving in, and we want uh the midnight madness, right? A set from Ashley, this big fluffy set. Perfect. We'll get that over to you in a brown color, right? You can make that choice. So there can be an opportunity for ownership down the road, but right now, I just need something. There's a need versus, you know, that ownership mentality that I need to have. Maybe you've got a small place and you need a small set. Maybe you've got you're expanding, you're moving into a three-bedroom house and you need more furniture. That we have that availability, and I think it plays perfectly into this new generation and what they're looking for. I think the big thing is our industry needs to figure out how to get that message out there a little bit better. There are a lot of people getting the message out there, right? You can go to Taco Bell these days and rent your uh rent your meal and pay for it in three payments, but we're not recommending that you do that by any means. It's a little crazy, but understanding that there are options because people want to be able to just make some payments because costs have gone up, right? And that that's a real fact. So if I can afford to make a certain payment on a weekly or bi-weekly or monthly basis, we're here to support that with that Gen Z crowd.

Pete Shau 18:43

So I got a question for you then, because I love the way you explain that. But now that we're talking about a rent to rent, and it's not always rent to rent, they have the option to buy, but they don't, then how does how does that work logistically with the furniture? You have more things out there on rent that probably won't get owned. So it comes back. Sometimes you might have things that end up now, they're used a little bit more because they've gone out, come back, gone out, come back, because everybody's switching it up. So now the you know, the product flow isn't out there as that much that much, but you are getting hopefully some people saying that I still like this, I still like that. How does that affect revenues and how does that affect the business not owning it as much? Because then you have sometimes the furniture that kind of sits a little bit longer than it normally would have. It might have a little bit more wear and tear. Is that how does that work in the you know, in the scheme of things getting from an invent your from an inventory standpoint? Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Well, I I think there's been a huge transition from the word rent to own to lease ownership. Absolutely. And when you say lease ownership, it feels almost short term, right? I'm just it's a short-term deal, but ownership is in there as well, so that you have that back end that you can't own it. Six months, same as cash, payment plans to suit your needs, whatever the terminology you want to use, but it's always been short-term. I mean, a customer can it from the beginning of time, you know, 50 years ago when Red Tone really got kicked off, or 60 years ago, it was I need something right now because I can't afford to go make this purchase. So when I go rent it, I'm done with it in three months, I send it back. So really nothing has changed. It's just understanding that Gen Z's idea of it has changed. They feel like they're tied in for some sort of credit transaction. You're not tied in. Come in, make the purchase, get what you need. If you don't want to own it, that's okay. I mean, our goal is to get you to own it. We don't want to see you lose any money. And inevitably, let's say you're renting a couch today and your needs have changed. You don't no longer need to rent a couch, but you want to rent a washer and dryer. We'll work with you on putting those funds into the washer and dryer so you don't miss out. We want those revenues to be there for you because you're part of the family.

Pete Shau 20:44

So, how do you get the Gen Zers to sell to Gen Zers now that we're starting to, we're getting older ourselves, right? We're 24 years down the road. Yeah, uh, I remember when I first started, that was a long time ago. Yeah. Um, you know, now we've got people I I got my man laughing over there. He knows he's like, yeah, that was a really long time ago. You dated yourself, and we when I would first started, we didn't even really use credit card machines. If that makes you feel any better. No cell phone. Oh, yeah, nobody did that thing. It was like a credit card, what do we what do we do? Where is it? It's under the counter somewhere. I I don't know. Yeah, and then now it's like you have cash? You do? I mean, it's just it's crazy. Yeah, but as we go through it and things have changed now from the way they buy, they also look at business differently. They don't look at business in the way our forefathers were, and I'm not trying to say that another long-term word, but I mean we were driven to do something regardless. And I think Gen Z is more like, what's the purpose? I'm not putting my I'm not putting my back into this without purpose.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Right.

Pete Shau 21:44

And so how does that how has that changed the way buddies and yourself have gone to recruitment and getting new fresh blood in and and what gives them that purpose? Because now it's a little bit different than it used to be. There might not be that idea I'm gonna sit here for 60 years and get a golden watch. At the end, and I'm good. Now it's a whole different, a whole different ballgame. So where do you sit with that? Man, there's a lot to unravel right there. You just asked about recruiting.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

You asked about how do we get Gen Z to sell to Gen Z. That's multiple topics here. So selling is um first you got to get Gen Z comfortable communicating, right? Because unfortunately, with cell phones, that that interaction has been very difficult, right? So making that comfortable for them on the phone, you know, putting scripts together, training is the key, right? It comes down to anything. No one is just born a natural great salesperson. It takes talent, it takes trades. You know, with our company, we have, you know, a one national um sales meeting that we do once a year, and then quarterly, the regionals break out their sales managers, lots of conference calls, things like that to incorporate the training side.

Recruiting With Texting To Beat Ghosting

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Um, because it's important with constant turnover and things like that. You've got to get people comfortable with having the direct conversation like you and I are having right now, looking each other in the eye. That can be difficult for Gen Z because they're so used to staring at a phone and having that conversation. So trying to get that to unwind a little bit and getting them comfortable, constantly bringing them in for getting ideas from them. How do you feel comfortable doing this? Does this work for you? All right, great. Let's use this in our training to get some people comfortable. Recruiting is a little bit different, right? Selling, I think we've we've done a really good job of getting people uh the right tools to be successful. Recruiting is a little bit different. What I will tell you is environment is extremely important. And I think we've started realizing it in the last two years because we have been going through a remodel phase in a lot of our corporate stores. And, you know, in the past, some RTO stores looked a little dated. And I will tell you that the new Gen Zs, they walk into these Apple stores and they walk into these new young hip-hop stores, and they they want a nice desk, they want the walls clean, they want it organized, they want a meticulous way things are on the board, nothing pinned up on the walls, just very clean and detailed. And when you have that, your turnover slows down. So, what we have found is the stores that are getting that refresh and that good look, they are hiring better people that people are staying around. Um, and also those stores are a bit more successful in their growth. So we're recognizing that as well. So I think that's a big part of the recruitment, is also making sure that you're investing your CapEx across your portfolio because it does pay off. You got to spend money to make money.

Pete Shau 24:24

You know, I hear all the time, and and I don't think there's a rental incoming that isn't coming across this, but you know, I hear all the time I implied in uh I implied on Indeed, nobody hit me back, or I'm one of 10,000 different resumes. How are you tackling that? How do you get these new fresh blood into the stores, but don't get overcome by the wave of you open up an Indeed ad, and before you know it, there's just so many things that are coming in. It actually takes a full day to just to really look at them because you don't want to, you don't want to skim over. You don't want to skim over your next GM, you don't want to skim over your next RM, you don't want to skim over the next best driver. So to go through it, it takes a minute. It does. How do you tackle that now with everything going on? Because these Gen Zs, like you said, their days of coming to the store and handing you a resume and and doing whatever, that's gone. They're gonna do five different things from before they even get off the sofa in the morning.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

Correct.

Pete Shau 25:14

Not in a bad way. I'm just saying that that's the way it is. So how do you overcome that? How do you find the right the diamonds in the rough when you're inundated with all of these resumes and indeeds and monsters and whatever? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

So here's what we've been finding, especially in the last couple of months. So we're making some adjustments on who we're using for our recruiting. And what I found through a lot of the forums is the reason why people are frustrated with companies is every company opens an evergreen ad. That is an ad that just says we are hiring for a position. And you might not actually be hiring, but behind the scenes, people are seeing that job being opened and they're applying. And because you're not hiring, guess what you're not doing? You're not calling them back. You're not calling them back. So you're creating this facade of all this back data, and you're getting people thinking, oh man, I'm gonna get a job, I'm gonna get a job, I'm gonna get a job. I just met with a young lady two weeks ago up in one of our Gainesville branches, um, going through a hard time looking for a job. I decided to go help out, do an interview up there. And she said, I put in 25 resumes, and you were the first person to call me. And every single resume I submitted was a company that says they were hiring. So I will tell you that what I would recommend is that you are utilizing whatever platform you have to the fullest extent. I'm gonna talk about Indeed for a minute. I'm not a professional, I'm not promoting their business, but they do have a very good dashboard. And that dashboard is almost like a CRM and it allows you to have two-way communication. And if you're not opening that dialogue up, you're totally missing out on the opportunity there. So Gen Z loves texting. So the first thing that happens is you establish a rapport. They say, Hey, I'm interested at two o'clock. You respond right back using their dashboard to say, all right, two o'clock works for me. I'm gonna give you a 15-minute window and this is gonna be the call. You set up that conversation and you minimize the ghosting because during that process, they are getting two-way text messages saying, Hey, don't forget about your call coming up at one o'clock. Don't forget you have a call tomorrow at 1 p.m. So that dialogue continues to go back and forth. You really have to use these platforms tools to be successful in the recruiting process. Everyone complains about ghosting, but what we have found is if you're constantly in communication, you're gonna have less ghosting. Ghosting's happening because people are just used to throwing their resume out there and no one calling them.

Pete Shau 27:35

Well, you you beat me to the next subject. That's exactly what I was gonna ask you. And you must have known it was coming because I've got dealers everywhere telling me I have scheduled 10, maybe even 15. I blocked off my entire day, 30-minute increments, give me a small lunch and another 30-minute increments. You know, if I got four, that's two hours. If I got 10, that's two and a half hours, and nobody shows up.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Yeah.

Pete Shau 27:55

Right. And then if they don't show up, it it's you don't have that time frame to reach out and say, I've got an extra 30 minutes, can you jump on right now? Nobody's gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Right.

Pete Shau 28:03

So you're almost like held hostage, hostage to that situation, and it's difficult. It is so on the other side of that, have you seen that? And what you're saying is you've been helping to mitigate that with constant contact directly through the system through text messaging.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Correct. Because that's exactly a two-way communication with that client. And they you say a time, they say yes, and once you set it up in their interview queue, they are then updated throughout the whole process, which minimizes the ghosting. Because a lot of time, what happens, we're in a store, we're running a store, I do the interview, and I say, okay, the in-person is going to be on Thursday. That's three days away. That customer, that client between now and Thursday could have four more interviews. They could have a problem at their kids' school. You could be just uh a thought in the wind. So you're getting not necessarily always getting ghosted because they didn't want to do an interview with you, but because they forgot there was no reminder. So if you're not using the software and paying for it, you will you you're gonna get ghosted, right? Because you're just gonna become another job, another opportunity that's lost. So communication is the key and texting, what we're finding right now. On that day I went to Gainesville, I set up 15 interviews, and out of the 15, 13 showed up. Really? One rescheduled and one ghosted. All of them were in-person interviews. You need to start playing a lotto. I got lucky. But here's the thing is we made this same, so that was a test. We made an adjustment in a few other stores, and we're seeing the same thing. You cannot wait. If you are opening an ad today and saying you are hired, and someone replies back that I want to talk to you at two o'clock today, don't brush it off. That's what leads to ghosting. More and more people see you not acknowledging, or you just have these evergreen ads open. I would say stop the evergreen ads. Just turn them off if you're using them right now and open up an ad when you are legitimately hiring so that you go to the top of that page on their algorithm.

Pete Shau 29:56

Oh, you got some guys turning, you got some guys turning now, you got them popping their neck now. Because you're always, you know, there's two things to that. Number one, there's always you're always hiring because, right? You never's not going to be there. And you want to fill that, you want to make sure that you have somebody or some type of built-up bench and ready to go. The other thing I would say is But just remember that it's all built on an algorithm, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:17

So when you put that ad out there on an Evergreen, the longer it's open, the further down the list you go. The people who are paying for their ads are always going to the top of the list. Right. So if you throw an Evergreen free ad out there, you're at the bottom. If you now pay for an ad while an evergreen ad is open, they are conflicting with each other. So you won't always go to the top of the list when you're having a paid ad and an unpaid ad on there with that algorithm. So it's really important to know that you think you're doing a good thing behind the scenes, but what you're in fact doing is you're hurting your ability to do some some active review.

Pete Shau 30:50

Well, that's good to know because I didn't know that. Yeah. The the other thing I would say is you said it yourself. We're busy, we got things going on, phones ringing. We're we're we're trying to be everywhere at once, right? So we're making sure that the phones get, you know, answered, making sure that somebody walking to the through the door gets talked to. And something really big that wasn't, you know, 10 years ago is we're sitting by that computer making sure that if we get emailed or pinged or something from our CRM, we're really getting on that. So then if you get a if you get a guy who needs somebody, right? Or guy or gal, sorry. You get a GM who needs somebody, they're already down a person. Now they're probably more involved than they were before because it's less management, more doing. Because I have to answer the phone. There's nobody else to answer the phone. I gotta answer the phone. Right. And I start getting these messages, but I can't get back to them. Where is that? It does it go to the GMs, does it go to the RMs? Does it go to It's a partnership?

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yeah, there definitely has to be a partnership between the multi-unit and the GM, right? And I think that's another reason why it's important to make sure that the the multi-unit has a good number of stores that can be managed from both an HR perspective and an operational perspective. Um, but there needs to be a partnership there. So because the moment uh those get pushed off, they just will get overlooked, and then that candidate's gonna be like, oh, you didn't call me. I don't even want to answer the phone moving forward, and then it becomes out of sight, out of mind. So, but set up your schedule when you're you're slowest. So you've been doing Red Zone a long time. Usually right after lunch, I would say between one and three o'clock are probably the slowest times in our business. And that's when you need to be very aggressive in your approach to the initial phone interview. Right? The phone interview, you're gonna lay the groundwork, right? You're gonna talk about what's important, what do we offer, the benefits, and you're gonna ask the prereq questions like your background, drug screen, things like that to get the hook. Right. You want to get the hook in just enough so they come in for that in-person interview. So when do you talk about money? I try not to do it during the phone at all. Even if someone asks, I say, we'll we really base that on tenure and experience, but I I want to talk to you more about a career opportunity, right? I want to sell them on the 401k with the match, the six-paid holidays, the the PTO that you accrue from day one, employee purchase program, advancement opportunity, in-house training. I want to make you a manager. Give us a year and we'll give you a career. When you talk with that mindset and you believe in it and you're passionate about it, very rarely will they ever not want to come in for the in-person interview.

Pete Shau 33:14

So let's let's talk about something that's been ailing us for a while. Both sides of the rentone and I would say all sides of the rentone industry. Our customers who have been with us really haven't gone that far, right? They're still with us. Whether they paid out, whether their returns, whether they, I mean, whatever the case is. But fresh customers has been a difficult, difficult pill to swallow for like, let's say the last 18 months. Getting new blood, getting what we have falling off on the back end is getting a lot harder to bring in on the front end. What do you see out there? How do you tackle that? What do you what do you think about when you start thinking about you know how that's harder to get that roll over? Because usually you'd have three people come off. We'd have four people come on. That's the way it's been for years. Yeah. Then it turned into three people and three people. Then it turned into three and two. And now you can go to Lowe's, you can go to Home Depot, you can go pretty much anywhere, like you said. Uh I haven't seen the Taco Bell thing yet, but I've seen everywhere else where like they're offering appliances for payments. Now it's definitely not the same program, but they're trying to advertise it like it is, or at least somewhat close, right? You have the asimas, you have the snaps, you have the progressives, the virtual RTO is also kicking up. How are how are you tackling it? How is Buddies tackling getting on that new blood that's gonna really slowed down in the last 18 months?

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Yeah. So we're constantly trying to redevelop ourselves on the marketing side and put a good plan together. I will tell you that when you when you go back in time, you know, we would always have a plan for uh your uh references, your field visit, your guerrilla marketing, all those tools that you might go back and go, man, I did that 20 years ago. Nothing has changed when it comes to going out and shaking a hand with a customer. We call them handshake cards, right? It's not about just putting a door hanger on the door, but it is about going out, shaking a hand. How are you doing? Let me tell you a little bit about our business. Because there is just still this big misconception between the generational gaps that this is a long-term commitment, that it is rent to own versus lease ownership, right? That you can make those changes and trying to

New Customer Growth Handshakes Social Media

SPEAKER_02 35:20

get that message out to that new Gen Z has been the biggest challenge. But I think the influence is through social media, right? We're trying to do more than just the funny videos and really trying to break down what it is we do as an organization and our industry does to get that point across as quickly as possible.

Pete Shau 35:36

Well, I know things are cyclical. History is cyclical. So there was a huge time when all we did was head out. When are you going out? When are you going out? I was a question. That was a question I couldn't tell you how many times when you going out. We'd have a couple of different maps. We'd always have that one big map on the wall, and then I'd have to draw the street that I was on, and I'd have to put it on some list. I was at square H2 at this road or whatever, dropped off, you know, 10, 20, 50, whatever it was. And then it kind of slowed down from that. I don't know if it was supposed to, but it did, right? We kind of got away from that. Now it's almost like everybody's stuck on digital. They love the idea. Okay, if they if they email, if they call, if they do this, and it's like, I think we need to get back out there.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

We do.

Pete Shau 36:18

I agree with you 100%.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah.

Pete Shau 36:20

I I think that we've gotten it off at so much that the new guys haven't seen us come around. They haven't seen us knock on doors, they haven't seen us sell outside of our four walls. They just, and and I, and I also see that similar with the new people. They don't expect you to say that. You know, no, I'm I mean, I'm I I answer all the emails.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

It's a it's a top-down approach. If you have a multi-unit that never had to go out in the field and find those sales and market, then you're gonna have a manager who's dot enforcing it, right? So it really starts at the top and focuses your way down. But guerrilla marketing has always been the backbone of the business. I mean, when you go to open a brand new store, if I wanted to open a franchise today, we plan three months in advance. We're sending you and your teams out flowering the communities and prepping and having that kind of omnilevel approach when it comes to marketing where you're tackling EDDMs, uh, you're a part of the uh Valassis mailer, the big companies that do mass mailers, you're doing the social media, you're doing e-blast campaigns if you can generate emails. So you really have to have that full spectrum when you're trying to do so. Don't put all of your eggs in one basket because that one basket only goes after one generation of customer, right? There are still people that open up the mail and that's where they get their coupons and that's where they make their decisions. That's the older generation, but it is still out there and they are they know rent-owned. The next generation, they know lease ownership, and we need to teach them about it. They're gonna be your TikToks, your meta, and that's where they're gonna do their shopping from. And then when you got your current customer base or your inactives, you can do your e-blast campaigns, right? And keep them in the loop of what's going on and what's changing. But making sure that you've got that investment across all levels is extremely important to your business.

Pete Shau 37:53

Well, I will tell you guys in rent to own. In case you have not been paying attention, it has come out on a newsletter. Retirement age is going up, which means that they're working a little bit longer and they own a little bit less nowadays. So Gen Z is probably the one that owns the least, which it's unfortunate, but they own lease housing, which means that they rent. And usually renters are exactly where rent to own falls.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Right.

Pete Shau 38:13

Go to your community. That's just one of the big things that we've seen it. I know I've seen it. I've had more conversations about that recently than I probably have in the last couple of years. It's like, when's the last time you gone out? Yeah. We we haven't. And there's two levels. It's like what? What do you mean, no?

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Yeah, you know, and there's two levels of going out. Are we looking to go out and blanket the brand? Right. If we're going out to blanket the brand, you can take door hangers, you can take gift cards, and we can throw them on everything across the streets. Again, to get your brand out there. But if you truly want to get a customer or a lead, I love leads because leads to me is the future, right? It's I couldn't sell you today, but there is an opportunity, I can get you something. So that's the key. Like, let's, I'm only gonna give you 10 gift cards, right? Treat them like cash and let's go out there and talk to customers. But I want this in 10 people's hands that you can get a name from that you can follow up with a later point. So making sure that you have the right staff that is comfortable with that too, because you're gonna have the guys that are your road warriors, they're comfortable with just putting your brand out there. But your sales managers and your GMs, your credit managers, those high-level assistants, those are the ones you want to go out there to close the deal, right? Let's get out there and uh build a brand a little bit.

Pete Shau 39:16

Well, I love the way you said it too, because you your employees will treat how you treat things the same way, right? So if you treat a gift card like it's something that's backed up in the corner, they will treat it like something backed up in the corner. But if you treat it with respect all the way through from the gym, all the way down to RMs, everybody, they respect it. And it needs to be that way. And when they come in, it needs to be a cash like, oh my God, you have a $100 gift card, a $50 gift card, a $25 gift card, whatever it is, and it needs to be exploited at the counter. Oh my God, it's great. Jill, look, she brought it back. That's amazing. Who gave this to you? Yada yada. You know, make sure that you you you make a deal out of it. Ring the bell if you have to, you know, run around the counter, but you know, same with a referral, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:57

We don't talk about those enough. But when was the last time that you really talked about referring a customer? If I have a 500 customer store and I ask every customer to give me one name, I could double the size of my store. And that's a hard thing to think about that I could go to a thousand customers overnight. But if you've done right by those 500 customers, you should have no problem asking for a referral. And that's where some managers have got to look themselves in the eyes and be do I feel confident that I could reach out to all my customers. I got 250, I got 300, however many customers you got. Give me one name. Right? Do you know somebody doing business with the competition? Do you know a family friend that's in a similar financial situation? Do you know someone that would enjoy what we offer? Give me someone in need.

Pete Shau 40:40

Yes. Let me help them with your name on it. Yeah. Uh so give me one thing. We're talking about all this Gen Z and all the new ways and all the things that have changed. Give me one thing that has changed in the way you've trained Gen Z starting recently. Something that stands out and says, we have had to do this because we we we realize that we're touching them more. They're getting it under understanding it more. They're getting that six-month, 10-month hook like we talked about 24 years ago, where they're staying in the in the career. What are you doing? What are you doing to get that?

SPEAKER_02 41:12

Whew, man, you threw me, you threw that one at me right there. I will tell you, probably the biggest thing is acknowledgement. Uh, I came up in a time where um you understood that work had to be done. You clocked in and you went to work, you did your work. Um, if you were early, you were on time. If you were on time, you were late. And if you were late, it was disrespectful. That was my generation. Oh, yeah. Um, the new generation wants uh a bit more of a high five for being on time, right? They want an acknowledgement if standards were achieved at the end of the week. So, not that we didn't have these rankers in the past that were doing it, but they want to know that they're a part of something bigger. And I appreciate that because I'm very competitive. So I don't hold it against them for wanting to be a part of this. I think it's great. It's just you asked, what is that one thing that we've had to change? And I think we had to come with the fact that this generation doesn't just want a report saying how great they are, they want uh a small plaque on the wall, they want that special shape. Oh, they want to know.

Pete Shau 42:10

Yeah, they want you to know too.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Correct.

Pete Shau 42:12

I want to know that I did good and I want everybody else to know that I did good. Correct. Yeah, correct. Well, you know, it in a lot of people will say a lot of different things. Whether they grew up and everybody participated, should get a participation trophy. This is the other side of it. Now they're adults and they want to be recognized for doing something good, bad, or indifferent. It makes a difference to them to that you have recognized, hey, you know what? Despite everything that happened today, you did a good job. Correct. Here, here, and here. We might have dropped the ball anywhere else. Correct. But you know what? These areas you did a good job. It goes a long way. And I'm gonna give you a kudos. And that's probably, you know, I have gone through probably three leadership books in the last maybe six months, maybe even four months. I've gone to a couple of different meetings. That is probably number one on the list is the recognition terms, the recognition style, the recognition conditions, especially from people from 21 to about 27, 20. They need it. Yeah, they need it. Now you got the younger, younger guys that are 18 and younger, you got to do a whole lot more.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Yes.

Pete Shau 43:08

But when you get those guys that are able to be in the truck, and it's usually starting around 21, and depending on you know the the insurance that we get on the vehicles, but when you get at 21 to 27, it's like you have to remember, yeah, you know, you can come down and say I didn't do this right, but you didn't see the six other things that I did right. Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

It's so easy to call out the wrong, but man, that one that one right thing, you can help raise their attitude and their outlook on the business. So, because in our business, it can be tough at the end of the day, right? You get through a full day, you've made 250 rounds of collection calls, had some difficult conversations. Maybe you had some leads that you were working on sales wise, and you you only converted one out of the three that you were working, you get to the end of the day and you can feel defeated, right? You may be pulled in a lot of different directions because you were short staffed, and at the end of the day, you're going, I did a lot, but I don't have nothing to show for it. Yeah. To have one boss or one peer come out and say, Man, you did a great job. You did a great job.

Pete Shau 44:00

Great job. But you know what? Another thing too is it's got to be genuine. Yeah. It can't be a slap on the back and a walk by, like, hey, you did great. It's got to be, I've got to acknowledge you. I have to pull you so that we can see each other and you understand, I know you did a good job. Yeah. And I want to tell you that was amazing. Yeah, absolutely. Those are those are the things. But now that we're talking about, you know, how everything reacts to everything, how are the how are we in the community now? How is Buddies in the community now? Because that was something that we were big on back when I was in Buddies Home Furnishings. And I gotta say, as I've gone and ventured out through the podcast and everything that I've done, all the people that I'm talking to, there's some big players out there that do a lot for our community. What's what are the few things, a few things that happened, you know, in the corporate stores that you've been able to reach out in a community or have you? Is it is it something that's changing? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

And we actually have something set up. We started it this year where every store of our 33 stores has to do at least one community-driven event a quarter. And then they get it signed off on by the regional, they show the support, they put pictures and they do it on social media. And it's now turned into a not a have to, it's now turned into they see the benefit of it. And it's not about getting sales, it's about building the brand, right? You're truly trying to put that manager and their team in the community to earn the respect of the community. So whether it's we've done some stuff with the Boys and Girls Club uh in Tampa, we have um we do the Bloodmobile Drive very often in a ton of our stores. Um, we've done um we donated uh uh over in Orlando uh turkeys uh during the holidays, uh during Thanksgiving. Did a whole family turnout there and donated, I think, over a hundred turkeys. Oh wow. So we're constantly trying to better ourselves in different situations. Uh I could probably give you a list. I wasn't prepared to talk about it, but man, there is just I'm proud to what our stores are constantly being a part of out there. The baseball teams that we go out and support and the the soccer teams. I mean, right now with FIFA going on, soccer is just absolutely blowing up.

Pete Shau 45:56

Everybody's a soccer fan. Are you a soccer fan? I see you nodding over there. You know you're a soccer fan.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

My kid has been a travel soccer player since he was seven, so I'm a I'm actually a huge soccer fan. And uh I don't think it gets the this is probably the best year that we've ever seen in America with it, but you know, just being a part of that out in some of the soccer fields and donating waters and you know, koozies and getting our brand out there. But the one thing I try to teach the stores is it's brand recognition, but it's about the

Community Events To Become Local Mayor

SPEAKER_02 46:20

community. If you get a lead and you get a sale, that's a great ROI. Those will come down the road, right? But get your name out there and build yourself and become the mayor of your town.

Pete Shau 46:29

Oh God, I love that statement. You know, very recently I saw Devin's antenno. He worked at Ren King. Um, he had a shout out in Apro, and they did an article about him. And that was literally what we had called him for years and years. He's been on there like 20 years. You know the mayor, uh, because it's it's unbelievable what he does in community. Like everybody knows his name. Yep. That's how you know you got it right. It is. That's how you know you got it right. When when when grandma and mom and now the youngsters know you who you are, and they know they're only going one place because of the relationships you've built over years and years, that's when you know you got it right. Yeah, you know, a little bit of backstory. I was in Spring Hill, I was I was uh all over the place. Um and back then, everything seemed a little bit different now than you know, from now till then. And I look back, I constantly look back at those days, going back and forth. I think that I've managed so many stores in my life, it's been unbelievable. Yeah, you know. Um, he's right, he used to kick butt back then. I'm just letting you know. Yeah, it wasn't, you know, it is what it is. But the the good thing about it was is that we all knew what we were doing. We had an idea, and a lot of us grew and went other places. I know Jay's still around. I still can't believe that Jay's still around. Hey everyone, it's Pete Chow here from the RTO Show Podcast, and I want to tell you about a company that's making a real difference in the rent-to-owned space. WoW Brands. I've seen firsthand how they approach marketing. And let me tell you, it's not just about ads. WoW Brands builds complete digital ecosystems designed specifically for the rent-to-owned industry. Their e-commerce and lead generation strategies are built to bring in qualified leads. And did I mention that they are actively working with the rent-town industry while also being members of APRO and Trib? Listen, these folks are passionate problem solvers. They don't just slap something together, they design, build, and scale the kind of digital retail tools your business needs and your customers actually want. So if you're serious about growing, reach out to Wild Brands at WildBrands.com. I trust them and I think you will too. There's really two things that I want to talk about before we come into the end. Yeah. Is leadership and AI. Yeah. What are your managers doing now? What is buddies? What are you? What are the regionals? What are GMs? Whoever, are you utilizing AI into what capacity are you using that to help your guys get through from point A to point B? Because I know, and we're talking about the Gen Z, they're coming in, they're used to using it every day. Whether they're using it the right way or not, you know, it's to be seen. Right. But now everybody's talking about AI. They're talking about how to utilize it, getting ahead with it. Are you guys using it and into what capacity?

SPEAKER_03 49:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

So we are behind the scenes. Uh nothing rolled out at a store level yet. What we're going to be starting with is reporting because that's the nice thing about AI. Data, I mean, you can't feed the AI enough data. So we are working on some dashboards right now for uh multi-unit levels and ownership levels so that it can identify problems. You can see the smoke before there's fire. So we're putting that into place right now. We've met with a few companies regarding the collection side of the business where I think AI can have an impact at least on the front end and maybe on the back end. But, you know, I think the challenge is still trying to understand that this is a people business, right? Everyone wants to jump into every AI, and there are certain um fields where it's absolutely going to be a huge help. But when we've watched some of our competitors try to switch to call centers and do collections outside of the town, and very rarely does that ever work because collections is about me and you, Pete. We're having a conversation right here. I learn about what's going on. Your your dog passed away, or um, you got a family problem, or your car broke down. I know you, I know what street you live on. It's easy for me to, you know, have a conversation with you and solve that problem, whereas I'm just a random person from some call center calling you. So it's almost like AI, right? So AI can generate some of those initial calls, but do we then need to turn it over to the store to handle the payment and the commitments, or do we let it and do it all of it? So we're still trying to figure out where customers are comfortable with. So we are testing quite a bit behind the

AI Reporting Testing And Relationship Risks

SPEAKER_02 50:40

scenes right now. We're also doing a test currently with the corporate stores regarding uh service, collections, and sales and trying to gauge how are we doing on converting those conversations? So AI's got a ton of influence in a lot of markets and a lot of business, but I think in our industry, we're all still a little nervous about where do we put our feet in and where do we hold off to see is the customer ready for this? Because you have to think about our customer. Who is our customer and are they ready for that technological leap in no longer having to deal with Pete and Phil and dealing with whoever this AI character is that we just answering the phone?

Pete Shau 51:18

Well, and that's tough. I'm gonna tell you right now, and I'm not gonna mention any names, there are some companies out there that already have AI doing quite a few things on the outside as far as handling, you know, scheduling, as far as making phone calls or at least following up on commitments and things like that. You know, you feel like it's still more of a personal touch, more one-on-one relationship-driven kind of thing right now.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

It just depends on the the level of delinquency, I believe, current currently. If you're talking about a customer who is extremely delinquent, then we need to berate them a little bit with a little bit more contact. But if it's the initial customer who's just a few days past due, I mean, do they need an AI calling them up as a reminder? It's it's it's difficult to say. We're gonna test it. That's the nice thing about our franchisees. We want them to know that everything that we're bringing into play, we're gonna test it corporately first. We're gonna provide you guys with data. We are a firm believer that data drives decisions. So we bring it in, we test it. And if we feel this is a good model, we have a few franchisees that will bring test it as well so we can get a bigger scope and then provide it to the fields as a masses. And we think that's extremely important as we're continuing to grow.

Pete Shau 52:24

Well, you gotta test it. You gotta test it. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

I mean, you gotta know one right now. I mean, even some of the guys that are dealing with the collections, we met with one of these groups and they said, Oh, they got three stores and they eliminated one position and they're doing all the calls. And it's like, okay, how's it working? Well, the percent collected hasn't changed, but it's making the calls. And it's like, okay, uh, you eliminated one position, is your sales still the same? Right? Because ideally, you need five people in a store. And even if you eliminate one credit person, do you end up with two salespeople? Right. I think that would be the avenue you'd want to go down versus just saying let's drop to a fourth person or a third person. So I think there's a lot of testing to still happen in our market because our business has always been built on. And I think every person I've seen in the RTO show has always said this is a relationship business. Oh, from bottom to top. Right. So if we eliminate the relationship, you can't really have a relationship with your AI agent. Right. You might some people have. I've seen some people really have some serious conversations with those agents. It scares me a little bit what's happened behind the scenes. But as long as it's being tested and vetted, um, I think we're gonna we're gonna be a part of the industry that's want to be innovative as well. Buddy takes pride in trying to be a leader in that innovation, but we're gonna test it through and through. Initially, right now, though, it's coming down to reporting. We want to be able to provide the best reporting to our multi-units who might be overseeing 10 stores, 11 stores, but being able to see a problem maybe before they can even see it, and going, here's where you need to focus when you go to do that store visit. Um, so we really think that's important, at least start with for right now.

Pete Shau 53:54

So I agree. Anthony, I'm looking at you in front of the relationships. You know, you know I was looking at you. You know I was. Don't look at me. You know it's coming at your way. He's got an agent he has by name, doesn't he? Yeah, yeah. And it does everything. Yes. It contacts me sometimes. So going into the end.

SPEAKER_03 54:11

We're already wrapping up. I want to know.

Pete Shau 54:12

This is good. I want to know. Okay. Inquiring minds want to know. You started at the truck, you moved up to a GM, you've got multi-unit, now you're the director of uh of operations for all corporate stores. Yeah. In operations, it doesn't get much higher than that. Yeah. Give me three leadership qualities that you would expect out of all your regionals. When somebody comes to you for a let's say, hey, I'm a GM, I want to, I want to move up. How do I do that? What are three leadership qualities that you would say you have to have these in order to move from one area to the next, to get from single unit to multi-unit?

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

So it's not just about being a problem solver, right? I mean, presenting problems. I can have people come to me all day and go, I need help with this, I need help with this. I need I need someone who's coming at me with the problem and the resolution to that problem, and they're more looking for the assist, right? That I want to be that mentor to that regional. So I'm looking for someone who's very self-sufficient. Um, great communication skills, right? You've got to be able to relate to that Gen Z that we're talking about right now. That how do we break that habit where they just want to stare at a device, but make eye contact, be relatable, but also still have the uh the older, the Gen X generation. Like, how do I how do I talk to them and balance that workload out? Social media and all that kind of ties into that communication side. Um, that third quality to me is probably someone that is competitive, right? This isn't a turnkey operation where you can just I just walk in and we'll see what happens. And you have to be involved, right? Even at my level right now, I probably be the first to admit I'm a little bit more involved, but that's also who I am and how I operate. And I hope that my people appreciate that, that it's not about being overbearing because I definitely allow them to make their own decisions, but you you gotta want to win. And um, I I find it hard to to promote anybody to management or into a multi-unit opportunity if you just don't have that that energy, that that the desire to be number one. Hunger makes sense. Yeah,

Leadership Qualities Books And Next Hurdle

SPEAKER_02 56:15

you gotta have that hunger.

Pete Shau 56:16

I'm gonna get like five emails on this one. Let me tell Phil Phil said this. So going into the end, lightning round, three questions. Oh man. What's the best book that you would recommend for somebody trying to be in your position? Oh, man, he put me on the spot because he didn't tell me to prepare for this.

SPEAKER_02 56:33

I can't tell you about the lightning rounds, man. So it it's been a little while, but probably the most influential book I've had is Um From Good to Great by uh Grant Cardone. That was just um, I mean, at that time, I think I think it was my mentor right now, which is Michael Bennett. I've had a chance to work with him almost 10 years now, and you know, the influence he's had on my this, I want to call it the second half of my career, right? I've had those mentors that got me to a certain level, and now working with Michael is definitely that next level. But when he first came on board, it was a book that he had recommended. And um, it makes a difference, right? You know kind of where you stand in in life, but where do you want to be, right? And going to that next level. And you know, I I know the first half of my career, it was always about how many more things can I put on my shoulders to knock out. At some point, it becomes uh how do I influence other people around me to want to be as successful? And um, that's been the thing, probably just in the last two years of being a director, that has been my biggest focus. How do I make this next group of people have a desire that I have about this company? I've been blinking blue and yellow for 24 years. I know it.

Pete Shau 57:41

I know it longer than anybody I've known, except for Michael. Yeah, it's uh and he hasn't been doing it quite as long as you have though, right? Right?

SPEAKER_02 57:46

He's been he's been well he said 10 years at all three companies. Yeah, yeah. So that's pretty incredible. So, but with Buddy's about 10 years. So, but it's it's it's a passion, and and I'm always looking for that next person who wants to be a part of that process. And you know, whether it's being with us or with the franchise side, I know we didn't get a whole chance to talk about the franchising side of the business and marketing and things like that, but I'm also extremely passionate about those new people coming to join our organization and their success. Um, you know, we've got a very good group of stores out there, and uh, you know, want to see everybody do well.

Pete Shau 58:20

So question number two best advice you were given in your 24-year career at Buddies Home Furnishings. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 58:31

Best advice. You can't do it all yourself. That's a good one. Yeah, you really can't. And and and and again, it seems so cliche. Um, I know as multi-units, we try to train our new managers who get promoted. It's one of the number one mistakes they make every single time is when something doesn't go right, it's just another thing they throw on their shoulders. I got it, I got it, and I got it. Before you know it, in three months they're burnout and they're quitting on you, or they're walking out the door, or they're failing. So um, you know, that was something I I learned very early on. And to be honest with you, I I have it wrote on a board in my office because I need to remind myself that there's only one of me. Right. And there is a lot of work to get done, but you've got great people around you that can be a part of that process and bring them in on the success as well.

Pete Shau 59:15

Always. Yeah. Number three, looking forward. We're looking through the windshield, not the rear view. Okay. The biggest hurdle you think that rent to own will have to overcome in the next 18 months. The industry will have to overcome.

SPEAKER_02 59:31

Yeah. I think the challenge that you brought up earlier is that so many people are now offering some sort of lease ownership or rent-to-owned platform is how do you can get your company, whoever it is, your organization, and your people to stand out, right? Yes, Lowe's or Home Depot might be offering a program. You don't know those people, right? And you might not need to know people, but I will tell you that when it comes down to getting a payment from Miss Jones every week for the next 52 weeks or 104 weeks, there is a sense of relationship there. Ron, you don't need any credit to open it initially with us. We'll get you set up. We've got free delivery, free setup, we've got free maintenance, we have a free loaner program, we have six months same as cash. We're gonna take care of you if something goes wrong. Um, you're not always gonna have that. Yes, you'll have that payment plan option, but you don't have that person ability. So, you know, making sure that that's still important, I think is gonna be key for us that that the customer knows in these small town communities or even in the big inner cities that you have a friendly neighborhood buddy out there to help you.

Pete Shau 1:00:36

Yeah, that's good. That's good. Listen, we try to stump him a little bit, right? No, he did a good job. He did a good job. There's more to come, guys, but I really appreciate you being here, Phil. It is so great to finally get you in here and talk shop a little bit. That is amazing. I love that it's been great. Guys, what I want you to do is make sure that you go to the website www.thertopodcast.com. You guys get to see all the things that we have on there. You guys get to listen to the show. You guys get to buy some swag. You can even be a sponsor if you decide. Make sure you go to the newsletter. And remember, you can see us everywhere Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, where you're gonna see this and a whole bunch of others. Phil, I do appreciate you guys uh for allowing you being here. I it's been an amazing talk. If you guys want to hear more about it, make sure that you go to the newsletter. We've got so much stuff on there, and I will tell you guys as always, get your collections low to get your sales high. Have a great one.